this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2024
363 points (97.4% liked)
Technology
59593 readers
2823 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Hopefully we stop wasting this limited resource on fucking balloons.
Edit: well this kicked off a fun and respectful conversation. The information I can find from actual scientists says wasting helium on balloons is bad. The balloon lobby says it is just a waste byproduct. The balloon lobby brings nothing of value to the world in terms of plastic or helium use, so I'm going to go with the science opinion on this one.
The helium used for balloons is of low purity.
The shortages you hear about are of pure or near pure helium. The stuff going into the balloons at Tommy's birthday party isn't the same thing used to cool superconductors.
EDIT: And I used to think Reddit was full of ignorant jackasses ...
Balloon helium is 3% helium. So every 33 balloons is one Balloon worth of pure helium. No helium starts off pure. It all gets concentrated/separated to get that way. "Balloon grade" helium can be concentrated just fine and considering that thousands of those balloons are filled every day, it is a lot of wasted helium.
*I had my percentage swapped, it seems. Balloon helium is 97% helium.
balloon helium has some air in it, it's still 90%+ helium, probably
Oh. I had that totally bass akward.
depends on manufacturer, some state it's just 50%
One of the things I read said it has to be at least 93% to make balloons float.
i've took time to actually look up various manufacturers' datasheets and it's: range 50-99%, 95%, 97%, range 95-100%, 99%, unspecified or just data for pure helium. at this point i'm pretty sure there's no such thing as "balloon gas manufacturer", everyone buys 4N+ cryogenic helium and balloon gas consists of odds and ends that come from flushing piping and empty bottles with better stuff
Last time I bought what I thought was a pure balloon of He, I’m pretty sure it had gotten cut with fentanyl.
How high did it get? Asking for errr... science...
What the fuck are you on about? Helium is an element. Doesn’t matter if it’s low purity it’s wasted and then gone. When the high purity stuff is gone we can’t be like “thank god we can purify the low wall quality stuff” when that’s gone too
Using it for balloons is still a waste because that impure helium could be purified for better uses.
No, no it could not.
The stuff used in balloons isn't pure enough to be used for cryogenic purposes, which is what people really want it for.
And before you ask purifying it is really difficult.
Incorrect. It is not found naturally pure, it must be distilled. Balloon helium vs cryogenic helium is like comparing ice distillation vs vapor distillation of liquor. One is cheaper but both are using up a limited resource.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_distillation
No helium found on earth ever, was pure enough for cryo. Not even close. All helium is found in low concentrations and spun extracted to concentrate and start to purify it. Then there are additional filter methods to finish concentrating it. Removing the hydrogen is about the hardest because it's also abundant and small and light.
But helium used in balloons can absolutely be concentrated and purified.
wdym by "low purity" helium, helium that has been purified cryogenically is easily 99.999% if not better, and this is the main process used worldwide iirc
The highest grade helium is grade 6, grade 4.7 gets used for cryogenic purposes. Balloon helium is grade 4.
Tommy's dad didn't steal grade 6 helium from a research lab for kid's birthday party.
Here's a link to a gas supplier's website with a chart: https://www.westairgases.com/blog/exploring-the-most-essential-and-underappreciated-uses-for-helium
I don't know much about Helium, so I'm a bit confused... What's to stop us from purifying grade 4 further into 4.7 and beyond besides cost? If the only thing stopping us is cost, then it's not inaccurate to say that, regardless of grade, the non-renewable element of Helium is being used in frivolous ways because it makes more money to find profitable ways to use the lower-grade helium than to actually further purify and conserve it for more important usage.
So the cost aspect is absolutely massive. You can theoretically filter elemental gold out of sea water, but it's not reasonable to do that to supply gold for use in electronics. Similarly you can purify helium as much as you want but at a certain point the cost makes whatever you were doing with it prohibitively expensive.
Right now we're still pulling helium out of the ground alongside natural gas deposits. We're also not doing everything we can to recover, recycle, or substitute the industrial and scientific grade stuff either.
As less helium gets extracted the cost will go up. This will put market pressure on all users to use it more efficiently or find substitutes wherever possible. If the price goes high enough it might also drive producers to purify helium that might have been sold at a lower grade in the past.
This find in Minnesota pushes that future scenario down the road a bit, which can either extend the status quo or buy time for technological improvements to be made that will make use and extraction more efficient.
I don't recommend fucking balloons. The squeaks are annoying and the pops hurt.
You need more lube.
I think for balloons we should switch back to hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong?
It would make birthday parties more fun
Probably not much. The hydrogen that a party balloon would contain could certainly make a small, exciting explosion, but it probably wouldn't have enough energy to set anything else on fire.
helium just boils off in MRI/NMR machines, this is the major use of helium i think. if you could recycle that in machines that already are out there, that would solve lots of problems. there are newer systems that do not require cryogens or just require liquid nitrogen which is much cheaper and less energy intensive. these things use closed loop refrigeration, but in turn you need to supply them with power