this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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So did internet forums. Where are they these days? Oh, they all became subreddits as users moved away to the convenience of reddit.
They will find a way to drown everything through big-data analysis if you give them even the slightest bit of leeway. They must be treated as a completely hostile bad-actor because that is precisely what they are.
Moving from isolated forums to an aggregate community is a huge quality of life change. We're talking about them convincing people who are already on the Fediverse to move to their Fediverse server, which is a side grade, offered to people who almost all hate Facebook already. There's no hook there, and nobody has given me an even slightly plausible pathway that'll convince anybody to move over. There's just vague gesturing and unspoken implications.
Nobody here wants to use their server. We all know how bad they are. We're here because of them. But suddenly a nonspecific siren call is gonna move us all over? It just doesn't make sense. I can think of plausible ways we can gain users from this. I can't find any plausible way to lose users or cause damage to the Fediverse that doesn't involve mind control.
There are thousands of ways to create a hook.
Here's a piss easy one I'll just fire off the cuff, access to the official community for Call of Duty 41 or whatever number they're at these days requires an account, but don't worry we've made a sweet deal for these 3 custom skins you can get!
Whoops, now the entire call of duty community is on their platform, and regularly logs in using their platform because they get content through it. In partnership with Twitch or some shit I don't know.
"Oh since I'm already logged in with this account I'll just use this w/e" happens, and suddenly convenience is causing them to use it more and more and more to just browse the rest of fediverse through it, and over time you find they participate just a little bit less everywhere else, bit by bit, optimised through A/B testing and big-data on Meta's side, until it's all them.
You have to establish a culture of complete hostility to them from the outset or they will find ways. It's really not difficult to think up incentives, nor is it difficult to pay influencers in different audience sectors one by one. Things need to be so unrelentingly hostile to them that even incentives, people they're fans of, and every other method under the sun all becomes uninteresting to people. If you give them even one single inch they will take everything.
Defederation doesn't prevent that from happening at all. They don't need us to do that, and I'm sure they'll absolutely be doing stuff like that. It just doesn't affect our servers in any way.
The idea that they can lure in people currently on the Fediverse just doesn't seem realistic to me. Look at how many people have had an immediate reaction to completely block them; you think this is fertile ground for recruitment, really?
Oh so we should just do absolutely nothing, create absolutely no culture of opposition, and allow it to happen considerably more easily then!
Fuck me it's always americans with this attitude. Completely housebroken people that oppose even the bare minimum of piss easy resistance to corporate control and then wonder why they're the only fucking country without healthcare, basic consumer protections or uhhhh child labour laws.
The idea that there's only two options, doing nothing or complete pre-emptive defederation, is not accurate. If we can't even acknowledge that, I don't think this conversation will be productive.
Those are the options, the third option you're trying to pretend exists is just stringing everyone along until doing it later, only naive idiots would fall for it. It's costing this instance subreddits that were planning to move here as well. Up until now we were on the cusp of moving here and directing users from our subreddits to move here. That has been thrown out the window and we're now looking at others.