this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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Lemmy Shitpost

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[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Even better solution though: (re-) build the street at a school zone so that no driver more sane than the most insane Florida Man would not fathom driving any faster than 20 km/h, no speed cameras required.

[–] byroon@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Even better solution though: the street at a school zone that no driver more sane than the most insane Florida Man would not fathom driving any faster than 20 km/h, no speed cameras required.

What?

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (20 children)

It's simple. If you design the road to be wide, straight, with wide, clearly marked lanes, clear sides and a smooth surface, people will naturally be inclined to drive faster. This is based on experiences with forgiving design. For motorways, this is fine. But for residential neighbourhoods and school zones, it's a bloodbath waiting to happen.

So out there, you do the exact opposite. Make the street so narrow that anything bigger than an average pickup truck barely fits in a lane. Make it out of brick and don't mark the centre of the road. Surround the street with shrubs and other obstacles, and stick it full of sharp chicanes.

This is the deliberate inverse of forgiving design, called traffic calming.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Make the street so narrow that anything bigger than an average pickup truck barely fits. Make it out of brick and don’t mark the centre of the road.

School buses are a thing.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They used to be. Now everyone drives their kids to school for reasons.

[–] Emerald@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The urban planning in many cities is so absurd and not meant for buses. This means school bus routes are absolute madness and can take hours to get everyone home

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

School busses do nothing to solve the problem of speeding in school zones.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I specifically quoted the part about making the road in front of a school so narrow a pickup truck would have trouble.

If it's too narrow for a pickup truck, how are school busses supposed to function?

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Then let me specify:

Wide enough for one pickup and no opposing traffic, but so narrow that two pickups are going to really have to negotiate to move around each other.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (22 children)

Schools have more than one bus and they have to pass each other. There are also school buses for the other nearby schools like the middle school and high school running at the same time even when school starts times are offset.

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[–] damnyouclouds@sopuli.xyz 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] psud@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

My city has exactly one road designed like this. Fire trucks have no problem

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I really want to see these cities. They have a dedicated grid of streets for cyclists, a different grid for fire trucks, a different grid for pedestrians, and a Kafkaesque nightmare of curves for cars. Cars that presumably often break down and the drivers are found later fleshless with teeth marks on their bones. Somehow 4 seperate roadway structures are imposed on a single city.

[–] psud@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I wish my suburb's streets were rebuilt to pedestrian/cyclist friendly style. It would be easy as every street has very easy access to the 80km/h square of main roads that surround it

You could block every street in the suburb in its middle and force all drivers to take the shortest path to a fast road, and let bikes and walkers take the short paths within the suburbs.

My street has about 2000 cars a day, with over 90% of them using it as a short path between two fast roads, or accessing or leaving a destination in a different part of the same suburb.

A friend lives in a suburb that's a tree structure, that's about a third best as there are no destinations from the "trunk" roads to anything but destinations within the suburbs. I'd hate to see that suburb needing to be evacuated quickly, but they're deep in suburbia and on a hill, so safe from fire and flood

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

I wish mine was as well. Just a nice straightforward grid. Minimize the time it takes to get anywhere by any means. Makes navigation easier as well.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

Not an issue in Europe. Though granted the US would probably need to replace their fire trucks with sanely-sized ones. You also don't need to haul a big-ass ladder in a low-density area what's your plan use it to do a header into a suburban pool.

Regarding response time absence of gridlock will be more important than the last hundred metres on a residential street, consider investing in public transportation, walkable cities, and generally everything that abolishes owning and using a car being mandatory.

[–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hey, I live on a road like that. It's not even bricks, but good ol' cobblestone. The cars also share it with a tram.

There's a lot of pedestrians crossing. It's a residential area with shops in the ground floor of all the buildings.

There's multiple schools and kindergartens around, so they set the speed limit to 30km/h. Does that matter? No. People go 50-60 during the day and 70-80 at night. The only times that doesn't happen is when the cops set up a mobile speed camera.

The road is fairly straight, I'll give you that, but I guess they can't just demolish a few kilometres of 100yrs old houses to make to road a bit winding.

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I mean, if the ~~road~~ street takes up only part of the width of the right of way, you can do a lot with blocking off half the ~~road~~ street and alternating which side every few dozen metres. No demolition required.

Upon closer inspection, what you just described is a street, not a road.

Also, even with a narrower street, with strategically placed obstacles, you can convince drivers to zig-zag and reduce their speed that way.

[–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I didn't know there was a difference, I've been using them synonymously.

With the proposed changes traffic would have to wait constantly to let the other side pass. You would not only limit speed, but als throughput. If you just go slower because of speed cameras, the amount of traffic can stay the same.

There's a lot of cars and lorries going through here. Sometimes a road/street that has a lot of traffic just goes through a fairly residential area and we kind of have to live with the fact.

And if you think that's bad city planning call the eighteen hundreds and complain to these people.

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[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)
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[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 months ago (12 children)

"Take this road that's in good condition and spend public money rebuilding it over months instead of installing a camera today to push drivers to be responsible."

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