this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024
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[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But that’s the way borders were understood then too… it was just harder to determine who was who?

They’d kick you out and burn down your house or kill you for being an invader?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They’d kick you out and burn down your house or kill you for being an invader?

That is a complete anachronism, unless you actually were an invader. Have you actually researched this or are you just taking your assumptions and trying to apply them to history?

[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Go read some Greek history on the city states and ostracism, as well as the fact that it only worked because they had slaves and subjugated women?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Exile as punishment for a crime and keeping slaves is distinct from having a border with border controls.

[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ostracism only required a vote, no crime, and no defense was allowed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism

The penalty for returning was death.

Presumably even though there were no border controls, they would kill you if you returned.

Honestly, I’m not sure what the fixation with a guy in a booth is about. Whether you get denied entry and they throw you out, or if they exile or ostracize you, what’s the difference?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Literally whether you can control human migration between territories.

[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But if you can throw people out, and kill them when they come back why is it that different?

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Denying entry to random people is different than telling someone to leave?

Imagine the difference between a bar with a bouncer at the door and a bar without, and then apply that principle at a much larger scale.

[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, it seems the same. If a bar doesn’t want Jews in it and the bartender asks everyone if they’re Jewish or a bouncer at the door feels like a distinction without a difference.

There’s no additional liberty, the people who own the bar set the rules.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago

But it makes it much harder to control who is in a space, which means in practice there are additional liberties.