You're very vocal about your belief that Uighur mistreatment in China is Western propaganda and are quick to discredit any source that says otherwise. As far as I've noticed you defend any jab at China in the same way.

Personally I'm very much against capitalism, the destruction its wrought on the world, and the countries that legislate in favor of short term gains for the wealthy over basic rights for the other 99.99%. The US is a shithole and the greatest offender of them all.

That said, just because I'm not on team America doesn't mean I'm on team China. That stinks of "Republicans are terrible so I have to be a Democrat." Both can suck and legitimately criticizing one doesn't mean you're in league with the other though I don't get the vibe that you agree with that sentiment. You're quick to say that anything negative said about China is propaganda.

In this particula case, I'm curious to what degree the information is false. Is it a 100% fabrication and there is absolutely no different treatment of Uighur Muslims by the Chinese government? Are Uighurs asked nicely to consider a different religious belief but nothing more? Are reeducation camps real, but Uighurs are treated really well there?

Please cite your sources and explain why they're more credible that the sources that claim some fuckery is going on with the Chinese government in respect to Uighurs.

[–] TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml -2 points 3 years ago (1 children)

This one AMA of Human Rights Watch China Director will shatter a lot of your beliefs about the so called Uyghur genocide: https://teddit.net/r/worldnews/comments/hwi7ub/i_am_sophie_richardson_china_director_at_human/

[–] xenith@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 children)

I didn't say I had any beliefs that needed shattering. I looked through the comments of the linked reddit AMA and some people talked about the spread of propaganda but that's no more compelling than your comments saying the same thing. I'm not sure what I was supposed to take away from that and I hope that you have more substantial reasoning propping up your beliefs.

Back to my original question, in your estimation what is the level of misinformation about Uighur treatment by the CCP? Are Uighurs treated no differently than anyone else in China? Are Uighurs being detained or questioned due to their religious beliefs? Are reeducation camps real? I'm sincerely interested but calling news articles misinformation is not in itself compelling in any way.

[–] TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 years ago (1 children)

Did you not notice the debunking of fabricated evidence, and that how the origin sources of the Uyghur genocide claims usually come down to Adrian Zenz (who was with Sintash at RFA office) and CHRD? Do you not notice US Colonel Lawrence Wilkinson explaining in a speech why they were at Afghanistan?

If you cannot believe it from the mouth of a US Colonel himself, you can believe all kind of manufacturing consent fake news you want to. I bet you also believed HK rioters were protesting without USA senators giving the rioter leaders a visit, and probably also that Iraq had WMDs, the Nayirah testimony was correct, Yeomin Park's $40K testimony against North Korea was correct, Afghanistan war was justified, Vietnamese suffering from Agent Orange effects was justified and so on. Why did I say this? Because like you, I used to believe blindly that Anglosphere global news press always spoke the truth, and they are the true authority.

Back to your original questions. Western propaganda outlets never enquired the "suffering" Uyghurs themselves on ground, and BBC even refused an Imam's interview. Yes they are surveilled and policed for protection purposes, but the alternative is them becoming terrorists, like some of them did that committed attacks against mainland from 1993-2013. Populations in a genocide do not grow, which it surprisingly did in Xinjiang. Uyghurs occasionally get questioned, but not detained. Reeducation camps are vocational training centers that are opted into, and are not concentration camp le Nazi gulags.

The issue with your question, when you ask about treatment of Uyghurs, is that other ethnicities do not face the same Salafist Mujahideen radicalisation threats as Uyghurs do.

I could talk a lot more on this issue if you want to, but I have a feeling you have made up your mind. I am still guessing you might want to take a deeper dive, so I will leave this for you, so you can learn a lot more in 2 hours. https://peertube.tux.ovh/w/665e238a-dd9d-4529-aadd-99404cb2c094

[–] xenith@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 children)

Yes they are surveilled and policed for protection purposes, but the alternative is them becoming terrorists, like some of them did that committed attacks against mainland from 1993-2013.

Whoa whoa whoa. I think you and I have different interpretations of what constitutes "fucked up" because I think what you just said is absolutely fucked and you just casually threw it in the middle of a paragraph. And you worded it like it was fact: "the alternative is them becoming terrorists." I mean, fuck man.

Are you a fan of the US government surveilling and policing Muslims because "the alternative is them becoming terrorists?" You sound like a talking head on Fox News: "If them Mooslums all wanna be terrorists then the gubment SHOULD be watching them!"

This is my overarching point: you spend a lot of time on here calling people uneducated and bigots and sockpuppets and actors of the state all in the name of unshakable support for a government.. which is exactly what the far right in America does for a different government. You/they come off as angry, hostile, and combative. Anything you/they don't believe is misinformation believed by sheep and you/they are the ultimate arbiters of truth. You weaken your own arguments by equating insult to education and debate.

Most of the times I see you in a thread, you're stating an opinion as fact or being rude to someone who asks a question or has a different opinion. In your response to me above you said that I "believe blindly that Anglosphere global news press always spoke the truth, and they are the true authority" and that you "have a feeling [I] have made up your mind" because I asked for sources or citations. You "bet I also believe" a bunch of other US-state sponsored propaganda which is a blatent attempt at undermining a platform that I don't hold and never expressed. I never presented an opinion outside of my hatred for capitalism - I simply asked for information and you jumped on the offensive.

I'm not anti-China. I'm anti-being rude and dismissive when someone asks for information or doesn't agree with you. You're a bully and you need to be aware of that. Look at your comment history and tell me I'm wrong.

You're not changing any minds or any systems by insulting everyone who doesn't tell you you're right. You're obviously angry much of the time, but you're not using it constructively. Despite your intentions you do more harm than good to your cause.

[–] TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml -2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

Yes they are surveilled and policed for protection purposes, but the alternative is them becoming terrorists, like some of them did that committed attacks against mainland from 1993-2013.

Whoa whoa whoa. I think you and I have different interpretations of what constitutes “fucked up” because I think what you just said is absolutely fucked and you just casually threw it in the middle of a paragraph. And you worded it like it was fact: “the alternative is them becoming terrorists.” I mean, fuck man.

Are you a fan of the US government surveilling and policing Muslims because “the alternative is them becoming terrorists?” You sound like a talking head on Fox News: “If them Mooslums all wanna be terrorists then the gubment SHOULD be watching them!”

There is a BIG difference. China did not fund or give birth to white supremacist domestic terrorists in USA, but USA gave birth to ISIS, Al Qaeda, ETIM and all these terrorist organisations and funded Pakistan for an eternity, and is friends with Saudi (used them for supplying chemicals for Yemen genocide) and uses Israel as vassal state for cyberwar globally, to fuel wars in MEA and so on. It just so happens that the North West China region and MEA is almost the same part of Asia where all this Mujahideen extremism happens, and you do not know how Salafist Wahhabis work to radicalise regular impoverished and/or poor hopeless citizens in MEA to become terrorists.

you spend a lot of time on here calling people uneducated and bigots and sockpuppets and actors of the state all in the name of unshakable support for a government… which is exactly what the far right in America does for a different government. You/they come off as angry, hostile, and combative. Anything you/they don’t believe is misinformation believed by sheep and you/they are the ultimate arbiters of truth. You weaken your own arguments by equating insult to education and debate.

Is this the victim card? REALLY? I am not calling random people random things. With the exception of one recent incident with Helix (because like the idiot I am, I forgot to take a longer screenshot), I have ALWAYS provided proof for each and every single claim I have made.

You’re a bully and you need to be aware of that. Look at your comment history and tell me I’m wrong.

I have an authoritarian tone because I am trying to get facts across. Being a cotton swab like person leads to everyone just stamping their feet all over you. In fact, you are doing exactly that by calling me a bully for telling simple facts of the present era. You are not refuting anything I am saying, just repeating to me a false viewpoint of the same Western propaganda machine that manufactures consent for conflict and war, so that they can benefit from the weapon selling and the division created amongst competitor countries from rising up ever again.

FYI, this is also the same machinery that has been spying over the post WW2 world since 1969/70, and conquering the world with divide and conquer imperialism since the past 300-400 years. If you feel this is insult to you, then you need to learn to self critique instead of unknowingly being a tool for Western imperialist machinery.