this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023
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[–] tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

While I agree with your first paragraph, I'm not sure that communism would be a solution, given how history has shown us that it can be quite easily corrupted and used by the elite to exploit the masses.

A capitalist system where political power have the means to control financial power, and where there are limits to the influence of money in politics, might be better IMHO.

[–] optissima@lemmynsfw.com 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure that capitalism would be a solution, given how history has shown us that it designed to be corrupt and used by the elite to exploit the masses.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Humans being as they are, just as it is naive to expect that a Society were everybody has the same (i.e. the actual Communist utopia) even if created instantly by magic would remain Equal for more than a few seconds, it's naive to expect that in a Society were personal monetary wealth is valued as the greatest quality of a person and the core political message is that "Greed is Good", the Makers of Laws (a.k.a. Politicians) and the Enforcers of Laws would be - uniquelly in such a society - not driven by personal upside maximization and instead work for the common good.

In the game of Capitalism, there is no greater Return On Investment than that of buying rules and referees and the more it get invested in overall on those with the power to subvert the system that defines and imposes check & balances the easier it gets to treat law-making and law-enforcement as services for sale.

Scandinavian nations are degrading along with everybody else at this point, it just took longer and was harder to subvert governance in the heavilly supervised version of Capitalism of countries with a general pro-social culture than it did in "free for all" US of A were there none of the social, non-Capitalist, ideological elements are about considering others and not just one's own satisfaction and ego (which is how you end up with Libertarians rather than Equalitarians and pure ego-driven Moralists rather than Conservatives).

[–] optissima@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 11 months ago

naive to expect... the actual Communist utopia... even if created instantly by magic would remain Equal for more than a few seconds

Who said that's the communist utopia? Who is shooting for an unenforceable equality? What kind of mindset do you think those who existed in your own imagined communist utopia that society would have? Capitalist points of view?

[–] spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Can you honestly look at the state of society (and the planet, in a more literal sense) and say that capitalism is doing a good job…? It’s rampant with corruption and suffering.

[–] tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's doing a not so bad job in a few countries (spoiler: the US is not among them), e.g. Finland, Denmark, Germany, Canada. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, not even a good system, just that it's a good place to start.

Wealth redistribution requires that there's wealth to begin with, and capitalism is clearly the system with the best incentives to create wealth. You just need strong policies to prevent sociopaths a la Musk, Thiel or Bezos to try to hoard "all the money", to easily break up monopolies, etc.

[–] spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

Canada is not doing okay, its government is clearly corrupt and has no problem letting the population flounder in a housing crisis. Harper’s era was about pulling money away from crown corps in favour of paying companies friendly to the Conservative Party.