this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2023
719 points (91.0% liked)
Technology
59539 readers
3112 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
In my career, I’ve learnt the hard way that every crowning achievement starts with a bullshitter being cursed by a bunch of engineers - the very same engineers who years later laud the bullshitter as the person with the tenacity to drive them to achieve greatness.
Jobs definitely pushed engineers to work harder than they would have otherwise.
For example he complained the first prototype iPod was too bulky. And when they said it can't possibly be made any smaller he tossed it in a fish tank and pointed at the bubbles as proof that it could be made smaller - the prototype was full of empty space/air.
There have been some detailed stories from the engineer that invented the first small touch screen keyboard that actually worked well, as part of a larger team that worked their asses off repeatedly being told their keyboard wasn't good enough over and over. Steve was so unhappy with the early iterations that he was going to scrap the entire iPhone project unless they could fix it on a short deadline. From the stories it was clearly an extremely stressful project, with engineers pulled off other products to try to get the keyboard to work, but they cracked it - with a complex system that algorithmically (and invisibly) adjusted the size of each key based on english language patterns.
Even that wasn't good enough. Steve gave it the all clear to ship that keyboard but years after the release he sent them back to start over from scratch. iPhone keyboards didn't work like that for long. The latest version uses a scaled down version of a Large Language Model (Apple calls it a "Transformer-powered" that learns not just from english (or whatever language) but also your personal typing habits.
Yes he was a dick. Yay capitalism
When a keyboard is nearly impossible to type on - calling that out isn't being a dick. It's just being honest.
It is a quite well known fact that Steve Jobs was an arrogant prick. He certainly knew it and thought it was a good thing. ITT: people butthurt that anyone would suggest it's not
Is a Drill Instructor a dick or is he trying to push you to be better?! It’s more complicated that just “dicks and saints”.
Yes, they 100% are a dick if they're anything like the character in full metal jacket
Yes ok, but I didn’t mention FMJ, you did.
And? That's a popular conception of the role for a reason
If you, or others, choose to interpret my use of the words “drill instructor” as “that guy from FMJ [a fiction film about the US army 60 years ago]”, I can see why confusion arises.
Let’s forget about drill instructors - it was an allegory and if the allegory didn’t work to serve the point I’m actually trying to make, let’s say “personal trainer” instead. Why do personal trainers exist? One of the clear reasons is that they help you exceed what you thought possible.
And all I’m saying is that I’ve been working on dev teams where you end up achieving more than you thought you could because there’s some separation between those who dream up features and those who build them.
People were discussing Jobs being a nightmare to work for, which is honestly very well documented. The question is, is it justified? I say no not really. Being a good leader doesn't require being an asshole. You seem to be saying it IS justified.
The analogy of a drill instructor worked perfectly I thought, since that stereotype exists for a reason. Outside the movie, that phrase is commonly used as shorthand for an uptight mean hardass. One example of a real story supporting that: my grandfather fought in WW2 and had horror stories about his, including getting kicked in the mouth by them.
Now you're backpedaling and comparing Jobs to a personal trainer. Nah, Jobs was an asshole and simping for him is weird.
Ken Kocienda, the engineer who led the team that created the original iPhone keyboard and predictive text system, wrote a book titled “Creative Selection: Inside Apple's Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs.” So there’s at least one real engineer for you who speaks highly of Jobs.
They aren’t nameless. They write books and go on podcasts, their thoughts on Jobs are available to us. Plenty of them praise Jobs for driving them to do their best work.
Be careful, you’re stepping out of the “all bosses are capitalist, exploitative assholes and if you aren’t out in the field ploughing, you’ll be next against the wall in our cultural revolution”-zone that’s considered acceptable on Lemmy.
JdW clearly thought not very much of my thoughts and someone decided the name-calling warranted a removal. That said, I’ve responded to JdW with a direct message to share some examples I’ve been part of in my time. I do believe it’s a pattern you come to recognise after 20+ years in software development.
Shit take
what's your career?
Undertaker
Software development. I’ve been on both sides of the equation I’m describing above, many times. Looking back, a large part of the achievements I’ve been fortunate to be part of started with someone who said “we can totally do it” while we, the team, were mouthing “how the fuck are we going to do that?!”.
But you find a way, usually. That’s all I’m saying.
In other words, you've been the shitty boss like I had who would make unrealistic promises to clients and then pretend it's all okay you made everyone work all weekend because hey, you bought them pizza and they NEED your Jobs-like genius to achieve their best 🙄
Wow, assume much?
Found the bullshitter