310
White House: $8.2B for 10 major rail projects including US' first high-speed rail
(www.whitehouse.gov)
this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2023
310 points (98.4% liked)
Fuck Cars
9682 readers
1489 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This is awesome, this is legitimately a great start, and I want MORE. I've got a little bone to pick about calling Brightline HSR, but, whatever.
Some things I'd love to see:
-More investment in Amtrak getting their own, dedicated alignments that they won't have to share with freight operators. This is currently the reason why their speed limits are so low that it's literally faster to drive than to take Amtrak anywhere for most of the country. And I do mean that literally, it's faster to drive including stopping at hotels, from Sacramento to Chicago than it is to take the California Zephyr. It's twice as long to take the coast starlight as it is to harden your mind and your ass and just drive from LA to Seattle.
-Along with that, I'd love to see more Mid-Speed Rail projects for Amtrak, not only for intra-region travel but especially for inter-regional travel. Mid-Speed Rail (thinking of brightline east here, so minimum avg 120 mph) would make Amtrak a viable and competitive option for inter-regional travel while still being much more affordable to build and operate over those long distances than HSR. At 120 mph average, you could do the Coast Starlight run in a little under 10 hours, which is a comfortable overnight trip or leisurely day in coach, as opposed to the 36 hour ride it is now. The California Zephyr also goes from 54 hours to just 17 hours, which beats the fucking pants off driving that route. It's not competitive with airlines on the time front, but there's still an argument to be made for making that trip by train for comfort and accessibility (not to mention not having to deal with airline bullshit).
-Gulf coast HSR and TxHSR would be great to see, but it was probably wise of Biden to leave that alone so Texas didn't cut its face off to spite its nose. Hopefully once TxHSR is a thing, they'll like it so much that they'll only decide to add six more lanes to the Katy freeway instead of twelve.
-Needs more urban rail projects. Let's get more metros, light rails, and regional transit that can act as feeders for these HSR projects.
But with all that said, this is still a great start
A great start!!
100% agreed with dedicated Amtrak alignments
MSR would be fantastic. If I had 120mph option for regional travel I would use it all the time. I used to commute from Portland to Seattle and it would be incredible to not have to fly
I don't know the tipping point (distance of trip in miles) at which air travel becomes better time-wise. Obviously coast to coast routes. Probably shorter routes too. But anything regional is a no-brainer at 120+ mph. HSR becomes even better
Main obvious challenge IMO is not the mechanics or the math. HSR/MSR takes a lot of political capital for a long time, which is hard when there's so many things competing for that capital
It needs sustained investment. Even if we get a two steps forward one step back situation, though, I'll take it!!
Conventional wisdom is that airlines break even with true HSR (220MPH ish) at around 400-450 miles and have it beat by 500. But I also think that's only accounting for time and not accounting for the incredibly enshittified experience that is flying these days.
I'd gladly have my trip take a few extra hours if it meant not dealing with airline bullshit
There's an argument against planes due to carbon emissions too, so if that was included in the price I think many would be inclined to take rail instead.
We need to nationalize our rail.. What Regan did to it was absolutely idiotic, and completely devastated the economies of many small towns.
Speaking from a European perspective, with an existing rail network that mostly works: above about 300-400km (200-250 mi), the train starts hemorrhaging passengers to flight. Flight is still massively cheaper. Unless that equation changes, trains will always be an also-available regional/long distance travel mode.
Many of these allocations are what you’re looking for, except the 120 mph part.
As the pair of example most interesting to me, allocates money for planning
While these still aren’t fast enough or frequent enough for good midrange rail, they’re a good bet by connecting to Acela, by connecting to nyc and Boston where cars and flying are tough, and by connecting dozens of colleges with tens of thousands of students who don’t have cars