576
City roads should be ‘ripped out completely’ to fight pollution, says government adviser
(www.telegraph.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
576 points (93.6% liked)
Fuck Cars
9677 readers
899 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Not a horrible idea if you have solid, simple, and actionable plans to replace them with robust, simple, and effective public transport options. Otherwise… yeah, a bit too far.
Uh huh, and what about material delivery to stores, restaurants, &etc in the city? What about postal service?
We should absolutely invest more in public transit, but light rail and buses are not logistics solutions.
Trains carry cargo all the time. I don't think it's too crazy to suggest light rail be adapted to do the same.
Deleted
And we're going to build rails to every store, restaurant, and other business that needs cargo pickup & delivery? And run a train to each of them, every day? And you think that would end up being more efficient/environmentally friendly than trucks?
Every store? Obviously not. Running cargo trams through major business or industrial districts, though? More plausible, if the will exists.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarGoTram
Something like that, but as a public service.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarGoTram
This went from one logistics center to one production facility. It is insane to think that this could be a scalable solution.
Wow, a train line goes defunct in a country that heavily subsidizes car infrastructure and actively works against other modes of transportation. I'm shocked, really. Shocked.
I didn't say anything about it going defunct. That has to be one of stupidest attempts at a straw man I've ever seen.
I pointed out that it only ever carried material from one location to one other location, and that such a system would not be scalable to serving an entire city.
Did you even read my comment?
Mh, why do you think it never grew beyond "one line serving one location"? 🤔
We did have more extensive tram services transporting goods in the past: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_der_Straßenbahn_in_Hannover#Güterstraßenbahn
You know, before this country became the world's largest car exporter and started to dismantle its train network...
Lol, nobody is talking about entire cities, but do go ahead talking about strawmen.
It's literally the title.
The title is "cities need to be entirely served by trams for transporting goods"?
Are you sure you can actually read?
Sorry. Good luck transporting a washing machine or full kitchen on public transport.
Delivery of a full kitchen is not something that makes up the majority of traffic. I don't think anyone is saying you can't use a van for the "last mile" in such edge cases.
Even washing machines can be delivered by cargo bike/trike though.
How would you 'use a van' if the roads are "ripped out completely"?
You do understand nobody is talking about ripping out all roads everywhere, right?
Right?
It's literally the title.
I can't even understand down voting this, unless you're delusional.
Oh, you're basing your opinions on fact-twisting headlines of right-wing "newspapers", instead of, you know, reading the actual article where even they have to paint the picture just a liiittle bit differently.
You do understand the difference between "removing roads completely" and "removing all roads", right?
What do you think the distinction is, in this context?
Yeah, I can help you with that: "removing roads completely" does not specify how many roads are to be removed, only that the ones being removed are removed completely, as opposed to partially.
"Removing all roads" on the other hand means removing all roads, as opposed to, e.g., some, or many.
There, that was easy, wasn't it?
This guy is talking about taking all the roads out of cities. That's what this article is about.
So, after I explained to you, several times, that nobody wants to rip out all roads, you continue to drone on about that. Yeah, I can see why you fall for right-wing nonsense.
Well, good luck, and have fun barking up all the fantasy trees in your mind! 👋
PS: you totally should visit Seoul or/and Utrecht sometime. You know, might broaden your horizon a bit.
Yes, I continue to "drone on" about the content of the article which this comment section is about.
Are you lost? Did you read the article?
https://lemm.ee/comment/6876196
Sorry, are you talking about a different article? Or different people?
Maybe you could quote something from the article which supports your point... you know, like I did.
Can you point me to the quantifiers in your quotes or the article?
Maybe you should do something about your terrible reading comprehension: https://elt.oup.com/student/solutions/preint/grammar/grammar_03_012e
"completely" is a quantifier.
You still haven't supported your point from the original source. I have. I am not the one struggling with reading comprehension.
🥱
https://linguapress.com/grammar/quantifiers.htm
https://lemm.ee/comment/6876196
What is your point? Do you think this page contains an exhaustive list of quantifiers? "Completely" is a quantifier.
And... you still haven't supported your point from the original source.
A quantifier of intensity not a quantifier of quantity. This is really not that hard.
See, this is not how these things work. You're the one who made a claim about the content of this article. I showed you you're wrong. That is my point. End of story.
I didn't 'make a claim about the content of this article' ... I quoted content directly from this article.
No, you haven't. You've given your opinion, which is different from what is proposed in the article. Which is fine, the proposal in the article is poorly thought out and anyone reasonable should have a different opinion... which is my point.
One of the roads near my house was removed completely.
All roads near my house were removed completely.
Two different implications, no?
Yes, the title implies something more extreme than is actually proposed, but that's why I read articles (usually) before commenting.
There is a difference between roads and streets.
And which one is it that you think is being proposed to be "ripped out completely" in this article?
Based on your link, I believe in this context it is 'streets'.
Well, just go back and read my arguments, and then recognize that all of them apply to 'streets', and that making the distinction between 'streets' and 'roads' does not weaken my arguments in any way.
Try a different approach, something besides pedantry.
Well, the expert is proposing to rip out roads - so my first guess would be they mean roads, not streets.
By the definition in your link, a 'road' would be between two cities, and the paths inside the city (where the buildings are) are 'streets'.
The expert is talking about removing the paved surfaces inside cities, so he is talking about 'streets', by your definition.
Apparently the expert uses different definitions from yours.
Just for starter: "especially" does not mean "exclusively".
Have a look at the Netherlands friend. I've seen people towing dishwashers behind their bikes more than once while living there.
A dishwasher isn't that heavy. A washing machine is.
We primarily use small vans. Eg. Utrecht, the example mentioned in the article:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.088105,5.1191065,3a,75y,353.3h,83.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swsuMJHo-eVnOoD-GPERjkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
And that's fine. You can have almost no cars, but still use vans when they're required.
Hell, do like the small Swiss town in that Tom Scott video. Abolish cars for private individuals or the able bodied. But you'll still need (small, electric) cars and vans to transport the heavy stuff.
That and tradespeople often use their van as a mobile workplace. Tablesaw, semi-complete inventory of parts they may need, etc.
You joke, but I have done this. Wheelchair accesible trams are awesome for this. Put appliance on hand truck walk it into the tram. No heavy lifting required like when loading it in a car.
A washing machine? That shit's heavy.
A cheap logistics hand truck carries weights up to 250kg. If you need more it become a bit annoying because you need to switch to using OSB Boards with casters.
Source: My life and helping friends move.
Bonus: Hand trucks are really convenient to transport full size kegs and CO2 bottles to parties by tram.
Who said we were abandoning all of them?
Street vs Road.
You can totally have delivery vehicles for stores on a street, but no other cars are allowed.
This is different from "ripped out completely", which is what is proposed in the article. So the answer to your question is that Dr. Fuller said that.
Apparently you didnt read past the headline and dont want to understand the content.. welp, cant help ya there.
You mean that 'rest of the article'?