this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
137 points (96.6% liked)
Asklemmy
43945 readers
859 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Due to Linguistics I spend more time trying to analyse the feature than judging it.
That said, two things that grind my gears, when it comes to Portuguese:
Wait, the resemblance thing is also used in other languages: "spitting image" in English, for example, and "copia sputata" in Italian. I'm actually wondering for the first time where it comes from, so maybe there's a reason for the Portuguese saying to be related to spit
Excellent comment. I've tried to look this up, but no dice... Anyone have insights?
I think that there is some semantic association between spitting and copying, that all three languages are using. (I wonder how modern it is; photocopy machines spitting copies come to my mind.)
However in Portuguese it might be also because most people don't know the reference of the original saying (the marble sculptures of that Tuscan city), so they parse it as a phonetically similar saying. And in quick speech they do sound similar, e.g. for me:
From a quick search that didn't provide anything really insightful, it seems that at least in Italian the term has been used since the XIV century, so it's not photocopy related
Yeah, if copia sputata is so old there's no way that it's from those machines.
Digging further on the expression it seems to be old in English too, attested in 1689. And the only explanation that I've seen to account to Italian and English both having it is religious in nature - while not biblical it seems common the idea that God spat into the clay to create Adam.
Speaking on Italian: people (often native speakers) messing with the apostrophe bug me a bit, it's a good example for this thread. Specially un' followed by a masculine word; e.g. *un'altro for un altro. It tilts the autocompletion inside my brain, expecting a word and getting another in place. I'm not native speaker though so this likely plays a role.
Oh trust me, it happens a lot even between native speakers, and it irks me too haha
Good points overall! I'd add that in my opinion "estaremos enviando" is closer to "we will be sending", which also better conveys the odd, misplaced telemarketer politeness vibes it carries.
This. I was struggling to convey the aspect, but you got it right IMO. And, pragmatically, it's more like "we might be sending", with that might highlighting that it probably won't.
Is 'estaremos enviando' not just Brazilian Portuguese?
I believe that it's more used in dialects spoken in Brazil than elsewhere, but even in Brazil it's considered poor grammar. Specially given that both nós conjugations¹ and the synthetic future² are falling into disuse, so it sounds like trying to speak fancy and failing hard at it.
EDIT: now it clicked me why you likely said so; it's common in European dialects to use "a enviar" (gerundive infinitive) instead of "enviando" (traditional gerund)³. The phenomenon that I'm talking about can be used with either, e.g. "estaremos a enviar"; for me it's the same issue, people would say "estaremos a enviar" instead of "enviaremos" to throw the event into a distant future that might never happen.