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Surveillance footage shows Hamas bringing hostages into Shifa Hospital on Oct. 7
(www.timesofisrael.com)
this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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If Hamas surrenders, Israel will simply compete the genocide they're in the middle of.
They have literally no chance to win while causing great suffering on everyone around them.
I don't know how a sane person could advocate for HAMAS to continue their terrorist actions.
Alas Lemmy is a shitshow in this regard. Not sure if Reddit is the same but the vibe here makes me barf
Nobody is supporting Hamas. They're saying that there's no justification for the genocide that Israel is engaging in.
It doesn't matter what either side has done when the response is to murder children. It's all unjustifiable.
well if an ant bite kills your mom and you go and poison bomb the whole colony, then the surviving ants come bite and kill your dad. are you gonna just let the ants keep killing your family or are you gonna poison bomb the whole colony again
this is just an analogy (works for the nukes in japan too) at this point both sides are shitty and idek how to have a take about it anymore.
Yes let’s reduce this conflict to ant extermination, can’t see any problem with that analogy…
as far as analogies go, comparing Palestinians to ants to be exterminated is a bit too on the nose, don't you think?
then lets convert it to people then instead of ants
or is that hitting too close to home
Reddit is a Zionist mouthpiece.
Put yourself in Hamas miltant shoe. Mostly now had lost family members, living since born in a prison, you cannot go to sea, or cross to Egypt or even other part of the country.
What do you think Winning means for them ?
I guess for me it would mean to have at least some of my family members survive instead of dying pointlessly
They're going to die pointlessly regardless of what they do. While I disagree with what they're doing. I can't exactly fault them for feeling powerless and lashing out. When people have nothing to lose. They don't care how much anyone else loses either. And the Israeli government has the largest part of the blame on this. They helped Hamas come to power and use them extensively to justify their genocide. They don't want Hamas to stop.
I think we should totally fault them for committing acts of terrorism. It does nothing to advance their cause.
While the Israeli government has fucked up, too, they are the one of the two parties that historically at least tried to negotiate a compromise.
I don't believe for a second that they want the terror to continue, they're not comic book villains. You're selling your opinion as facts.
Netanyahu's own cabinet has literally said on video that Hamas is an asset to them. Those are the facts. Netanyahu and his ministers have also done a lot to help Hamas as well. Mind you, I'm not defending Hamas. Fuck hamas. Palestine is not Hamas however. Most the people living in Gaza never voted for Hamas. And don't support Hamas. And would love to get rid of Hamas. But they don't have the power to. The people that have the power to would rather come in and slaughter innocent citizens of Gaza under pretense of going after Hamas. Creating more Hamas and the process rather than actually getting rid of Hamas. These are the facts. Netanyahu's government's actions are indefensible.
When the so-called rescue response has killed multiple times more than the initial terror attack. It is a terror attack in its own right.
That take is so stupid I won't even bother sorry
It is certainly better to kill Israeli soldiers than it is to not kill them. Peace has been tried for over 30 years, but Israel has refused. It's about time Palestine started fighting back. Genociders do not listen to anything short of warfare and terrorism.
Israel has refused? Israel is the one side that negotiated and offered multiple solutions to the conflict lmao
Yeah, any solution that isnt "Israel gives back the land they stole and stops genociding Gaza".
Dude what are you on about? Israel offered land.
If you think what Hamas is doing now is the better course you're just absolutely deluded
What land did they offer, and when? Was it even one thenth of the land they've stolen since the 1960s?
As opposed to the heavy resistance Hamas is currently putting up?
If Israel wanted a genocide they could easily accomplish it. They clearly do not. This entire line of argumentation is beyond stupid.
What genocide are you talking about? About the non-existent one against Palestine? How come they are under genocide when their population literally doubled over the last 70 years?
Can I ask you whether you support Hamas and their actions? Do you consider them terrorists?
Are you aware that Israel doesn't need to literally kill every palestinian in order to succeed at genocide? Do you think the Holocaust wasn't a genocide?
I don't give a fuck about Hamas, Palestine should fight back against the genocidal state by any means necessary. Nothing Hamas has ever even been claimed to have done is worse than genocide, so criticizing them at all is a logical fallacy. If palestine thinks incorporating terrorism into their war effort is necessary, I'm not arrogant enough to claim I know better. Every repercussion of this war on both sides is the fault of Israel, just like was true of Nazi Germany.
I know that for genocide you don't have to kill the whole population. Issue is that during the genocide, population goes down. During holocaust, 1/3 of the jews were killed and the population of jews was 30% smaller at the end of the genocide. This is not happening with Palestinians as their population literally doubled and there has never been a significant dip in their numbers. So no, Israel is not a genocidal state.
In the second paragraph you are finding excuses for Palestine for fighting genocide (why by the way doesn't exist). Hamas is a terrorist organisation which does not care about Palestine at all. They are only capable of killing Jews, tying opposition to cars and dragging them around. They were also the ones who broke the ceasefire and made the population of Gaza so radical that no one wants to have anything with them. Even PLO rather stays away from Gaza. I am honestly shocked how can you support terrorism and blame Israel for everything. You also ignore the fact that Hamas is not Palestine.
So if Israel kills 2 million Palestinians, but elsewhere 3 million are born, that is still genocide. Also, source on their population going up? You mean like world wide or something? Certainly not in Gaza. No, Hamas did not violate a ceasefire. Laying seige to an open air prison for 20 years does not count as ceasing fire. Hamas attacked Israel in retaliation to them getting worse and worse.
Israel never killed 2 million palestinians. The number is far lower. Stop spreading bullshit.
Population in Gaza went up throughout the time. It’s literally one of the most densely populated areas in the world (https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/).
Furthermore, Gaza is not Israel's open air prison and it was Hamas who broke the ceasefire.
I honestly see no reason in this discussion when you keep inventing random facts and when you support terrorist organizations. This is truly unbelievable.
They haven't killed them yet,but they very much intend to. If you're not trolling, I highly suggest you do some research on this subject before speaking confidently on it. Basically everything you've said is incorrect. I can't educate you to that degree in a couple comments. But if you are well meaning, and you can ditch your pro America/ pro imperialism bias, you will come to learn a lot about how the world works overall by doing a deep dive on this subject. But let me be very clear: Israel is the bad guy, and America is bad for supporting them. This is a fact. Genocide is always evil, no matter who is doing it.
Honestly it's funny that you say I am wrong and pro-american but at the same time you are the one supporting terrorism and spreading complete bullshit. I don't know who of us should educate themselves on the subject.
Can I ask you 2 simple questions?
The land of Palestine is where it was when the borders of Israel were drawn in the 50s. Israel has expanded itself drastically since then, and most (all?) of that stolen land is Palestine.
Never heard of it before, but based on the summary, I assume he says some real wack job shit, alongside his factually correct points, such as America bringing 9/11 on itself. He's right that when America targets civilians, they justify attacks like 9/11 in return.
"Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:
Because you attacked us and continue to attack us". Yep, he is 100% correct.
He also blames interest on loans as core to America's failings, which is honestly way more than I expected from him. Though, I figured out that capitalism is evil at like 25, while living inside capitalist propaganda, so it's probably not that difficult to figure out. Not that interest is literally capitalism, but it's a decent stand in for it that fits within his wack job religious message.
It's an interesting comparison between 9/11 and the recent Hamas attack though. It's not good that 9/11 happened, it just was wildly obvious that it eventually would. Meanwhile the exact opposite is true of the Hamas attack. It's good to kill people genociding you, but I'm surprised it actually happened.
This is my point here. If you start thinking that Osama was in some ways correct, it’s not him being correct, there is just sth wrong with you.
What? No. Osama also believes the sky is blue, does that make us all lunatics? If people say true things, it is intellectually dishonest to disagree with them. That is how brazenly obvious it is that capitalism is evil.
Yes, I should have been more exact that if you agree to his values, then you are wrong. I know capitalism is not ideal but what's better? Communism?
Sure, it'd pretty much have to be, right? Anything that isnt currently causing all of the world's problems has a very low bar to clear, and if you think communism is the answer, Im not gonna disagree with you. What we replace capitalism with is much less important than the fact that we get rid of capitalism in the first place.