this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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It is interesting how split opinions are here. Young democrats are more pro Palestine, older Dems are more pro Israel (although a little harsh). Republicans think Israel is doing the right thing.
You really need to understand that there is a waaay bigger political spectrum than "Democrats" and "Republicans". Especially when it comes to foreign policy.
Random condescension on Lemmy, what else is new.
I was basing my statement on an NPR poll and those were the categories that they used.
You are dn the internet and not everyone here is from the US.
The US political system is not the center of the political world.
In fact, I think that the Democrat Republican dichotomy is one reason why people in the west are so badly informed when it comes to politics.
Take off your offended pants and reread what they wrote. If that’s condescension then you’re too sensitive for the internet and should probably log off.
I am being condescending. They were not.
Lemmy seems obsessed with needless disputes and pedantic "gotcha" moments. (Your comment exemplifies my point beautifully, by the way.) It is condensing to read my comment in the uncharitable light of arguing the US political spectrum applies abroad. But instead of trying to discern what the other person means, a lot of you would rather find a disagreement where there is none.
You're both being condescending and can happily fuck off.
Ah so you DO need to log off.
In all seriousness my comment was meant to come off as condescending to highlight the difference. If you want to be mad at the world go right ahead. You’re the one with the shitty outlook, ya fucking baby. 👶🏻
And there it is. You're just trolling, you have nothing of value to say. Try to be a little less blatant next time.
Hey would you fuck off already?
Young democrats are more pro-dont-commit-war-crimes whatever the history, older dems are disensitized by war-crimes and obsessed with anti-terrorism.
Republicans love the war machine and think that genocide/wiping out the opposing side is the only way to resolve anything.
Biden is trying to put on his best dem face while attempting to also maintain control over nuclear proliferation in the middle east. There's only 1 party when it comes to global control, and this exposed it clearly. Democratic or Republican presidents, they all answer to the Generals in the end.
For example by not creating a humanitarian catastrophe for the civilian population of Gaza. By not actively restricting humanitarian aid, food, electricity, water. By setting up field hospitals and making sure that everyone who needs a medical treatment can receive one. By actively trying to limit the civilian casualties and adhering to international laws of war.
Or is this too much to ask from a state that pretends to be democratic and lawful?
This comment explains Egypts stance it in the last paragraph.
Oh wow, how generous of them. Yesterday apparently they allowed 50 trucks carrying humanitarian aid, for 2.4M people. Please do the math and tell me do you seriously think this is enough?!? Those trucks are carrying not only food, but medical supplies and water. That's extremely insufficient and is borderline cynical
Oh yes, humanitarian aid in the form of food, medical supplies and water can make a great bomb, that will obliterate half of Israel. Do you realise how your argument sounds?
Even fuel, never heard diesel to be used for any bomb or explosive. Or electricity. But please correct me if I am wrong.
You are also missing the simple fact that actually Israel is also controlling the Rafah crossing, they were bombing it on a couple of occasions. Plus by saying this you are openly admitting that Israel is actively trying to land grab Gaza and expel all Gazans to Egypt. And a question for you with increased difficulty, how easy do you think for a developing country would be to assimilate 2.4M immigrants?
Aren't my points valid though? What's your counter argument? Yes, I was being sarcastic to emphasize my point but this doesn't make it less valuable as an input.
You are once again missing the simple fact that it's not Egypt who is slowing down the humanitarian aid but the Israeli personnel, who are also reviewing what goes inside Gaza. So the state of Israel is directly responsible for the current situation. They can alleviate the suffering of Palestinians but it seems they are unwilling to do so, hence the collective punishment narrative. And for the record they started allowing aid only after substantial international pressure on them. How humane is this?
Please give me an example of what humanitarian aid can be weaponized? Plus if they wanted they could just ban particular items instead.
You do realise that It is not possible to build the infrastructure to transfer electricity to another country which is also an active war zone overnight, right?
And while on this conflict can you ELI5 the numbers here https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties. I am extremely curious to hear your reasoning of such huge discrepancies, 20+X or perhaps this https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435 or the finding outlined here: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/313615_ISRAEL-2021-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf.
And perhaps some food for thought, try to put yourself in the shoes of the regular Palestinian, even before this conflict. How would you feel, seriously, because I am pretty sure you WILL NOT be happy or content. And here you have your answer why all this is happening, you can't treat human beings as human trash and expect them to tolerate it and accept it. Perhaps if they were treated with due respect and their civilian rights weren't so restricted there wouldn't be Hamas or 7.10.2023.
Why don't Hamas operate out of military bases?
Do you live under a rock.
Israel could stop trying to colonize and genocide palenstine.
So Hamas kills over a thousand people and Israels response should be....doing nothing?
It's telling that you can't imagine doing anything other than mass murdering civilians.
You could try undermining hamas for once, instead of propping them and giving them constant recruitment material.
And why do you think those hospitals allow Hamas to operate there?
Could it be that every Palestinian is scared to get indiscriminately killed by Israel, no matter if they help Hamas or not?
What are they gonna do, kick the heavily armed terrorists out?
Wrong. Find out where the Palestinian military bases are.
Looks like homey would rather delete their comment than go online and find out that Palestine doesn't have armed forces (bonus points for finding out why not).
Not American, but there is a shift lately that makes me feel a little hopeful. Like for the first time my parents and in-laws are starting to see how not all criticism of Israel has to be antisemitic.
Yes that does mean we're having to be more vigilant for actual antisemitism (especially online), but it's still progress of a sort.
Issue is many young people don’t realize it’s mostly Hamas ruining people's lives and many older ones cannot admit mistakes made by Israel.
Or people are just completely on one side (which is imho impossible). Either they support Israel or they support Palestine and want Israel out. You know how few balanced opinions I have seen?
Exactly, and the few being balanced part is what drives us crazy. My wife is Jewish and has family in Israel. While we hate Hamas we dislike the orthodox Jews almost as much. Even with everything going on we care for the Palestinians that are mixed up with this and acknowledge both sides are truly bad in this. The enemy is Hamas not Palestine. Israel the nation isn't the problem, it's Netanyahu and company. None of that matters however as she has been spit on and treated like shit ever since this started just for her ethnicity.
There is so much information warfare going on and I am sure of it. As soon as that first hospital blew up, media immediately blamed the IDF before any evidence was out. Then all evidence pointed to Hamas being responsible and it barely got covered. Hamas is using hospitals as hiding spots at the very least. Meanwhile they do their best to heard and trap civilians into the crossfire while the IDF steamrolls. The whole situation is just fucked.
It is just so aggravating how everyone treats this as a black and white struggle like Ukraine when it is anything but. It's two shitheads fighting; with Israel at least having dissenters while Palestine is run like a dictatorship. That's the only simple part.
It is black and white, many Israelis don't approve of IDF committing genocide and murdering thousands of civilians. But hey, Hamas did some stuff....
Whats black and white? This conflict? Not at all mate. First of all, IDF is not committing genocide. If they were, the number of Palestinians would not double in last 70-ish years. Killing unintentionally around 10k civilians (less than 0.5% of the Gaza's population) because terrorists were hiding between them and Hamas built no shelters is not a genocide. I do not approve killing civilians but calling this genocide is very inaccurate. Secondly, Hamas is a terrorist organization which wants to eliminate Israel (plus 12 million Jews) and they have to be removed as soon as possible.
However, Israel has also been illegally occupying areas of the West Bank despite UN's and Israeli supreme court's decision, so they are not angels either.
Hence why the conflict is anything but black and white.