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BBC journalists held at gunpoint by Israeli police
(www.bbc.co.uk)
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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Are people still saying Israel is the good guys? Do good guys do this?
Do good guys kill Reuters cameramen?
Do good guys bomb hospitals?
Do good guys commit genocide?
Yes, they are. My CEO sent out an email this morning about how he's saddened by "the attacks on Israel" and glad "all our Israeli employees are safe". He closed with "we stand with Israel". No mention of any sadness or fucks given for all the dead Palestinian civilians.
God I remember during the George Floyd protests our CEO sent an email statement that was basically "blue lives matter". I was happy to leave that company.
No good guys in wars.
Heh, I had a similar reaction when reading a similar email. There certainly have been "Horrific terrorist attacks". Except from all sides.. for many decades...
Our CEO was careful and only mentioned support for the Israeli employees and didn't mention any conflict.
And we're donating to the Red Cross. I think it makes sense.
There was a controversial and sexist bait letter someone at Google wrote before being let go and it was heavily propped up by right wing media as an example and justification that everything Google does from now on is left wing because they're cancelling this poor sexist man.
My first long term job's company instructed HR to print out the letter and give a strong endorsement of it for seemingly no reason. It basically just read to me as, "Women have strongsuits other than business success like emotions and raising children and their lack of pay is actually justified and good." that they wanted to come from our female head of HR as opposed to our do nothing remote from Florida male CEO. These rich people are no smarter than anyone else, they just use bigger words as they stick their foot down their own throat.
CEO suddenly emailed out a "terrorism is never ok" email early this week expressing concern and acknowledging the pain of the Hamas attacks...as if anything has occured in a vacuum there in the last 60 years.
I do not apologize for the murders by Hamas over the weekend, just as I do not for the now even more retaliatory murders by Israel this week or any killings on either side for decades. Montagues and Capulets both were assholes.
The idea any organizational head from some random industry in a foreign country could even understand the basic dynamics, let alone decades of murder and loss on both sides, and still make a statement that would in any way walk a line of objectivity is so startlingly naive it boggles the mind. And other than their fucking irrepressible egoism, they would claim they're doing this for their employees? Company? Just STFU when you don't know the field of play!
Not sure there's such a thing as "good guys" anymore.
I think the person you're replying to is being facetious or at least centric based on your comment. Saying no good guys, alluding to the fact that the actors involved are all guilty of atrocities in some way. Not that they're trying to be "politically correct", but then again, I could be entirely wrong... ¯\_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯
I think the point is nobody anywhere is the "good guys". Every country is evil in many ways.
I think that is giving them a free pass. No country is perfect but Israel is now ramping up a campaign of genocide which puts them among the worst
I've been considering putting thems/yous on my work signature.
I don't think the Netanyahu regime are the good guys, but I didn't think the Trump regime were the good guys either. I don't endorse blaming a nationality for the actions of shitty leaders, especially shitty leaders who have directly undermined democracy in their countries.
Wild to me that you conflated Netanyahu and Trump, rather than Israel and Hamas. But either way, I agree.
I don’t think what Hamas has done is “cool, chill and dope”, but I certainly understand living under the violence of apartheid and becoming violent yourself.
Especially when your prayer, worship and protest are met with military action by your “supervisor”(?)
What else are you supposed to do if you’re a Palestinian? They can’t even live a normal day of peace, that doesn’t exist for them.
I consider Netanyahu and Trump to be elements of the modern international neofascist movement, aka "illiberal democracy".
Makes sense. I just thought it was a little out of left field.
No, right field
Or, currently, the Killing Fields
Those were from communist extremists though.
In case any reads this as affirming their belief that communists are fans of genocide, other communists from Vietnam invaded Cambodia and stopped the genocide referred to by the 'killing fields.'
It's so hard though, people really want to pick a side and I get that because it makes it much easier to think about and emotionally deal with but the reality is it's a painfully complex situation.
The same question exists for Israelis, the only reason they aren't being massacred is because of their hugely expensivel security systems and the fact every citizen does three years of military service - if their whole existence wasn't focused on protecting themselves there would be a very different political climate and far better people in power.
And yes it's easy to say 'they shouldn't be there in the first place' but that's also very reductive, a lot of things in history shouldn't have had to happen but it's too late now - what are they supposed to do just stop existing? Of course that is what a lot of people want to happen, the countries funding Hamas and Hezbollah for example...
The hard truth is Israel would never be in the position Palestine is, they're either strong enough to defend themselves or they all get killed - I wouldn't want to be in either sides shoes.
I think a defining moment of your comment was at the end, when you said, “ they're either strong enough to defend themselves or they all get killed - I wouldn't want to be in either sides shoes. “
One IS strong enough to defend themselves and the others are the ones getting slaughtered.
The one that can defend themselves? Israel
The one that can’t? Gaza
But you agree if Israel couldn't defend themselves they'd have all been killed long ago?
What are they supposed to do just sit idle and accept that powerful nations are going to continue to train, supply and support terrorists attacking them? That they'll never feel safe and will regularly have to accept the deaths of loved ones in terror attacks?
I don't think Israel is acting well but also I have experienced the reaction of people when terrorists attack the city they live in and simply can't believe any nation would respond much better - and again I want to say that im only talking about the Israelie perspective and likewise were any other nation in the position of Palestine they would react pretty much how Palestine is reacting - and of course you can go back and say well this happened because of this and that happened because of that... At a certain point it's of course England's fault but they had literal boats full of emaciated victims of histories most brutal oppression with no where to put them that wouldn't cause decades of chaos and violence.
The raw truth is history is ugly and messy, the Jewish people have been victims for centuries so it's really not hard to see why a portion of them are going to be very obsessive about self defence. Why a portion of them aren't going to have patience for the 763rd group of people to say they should be pushed into the sea and eradicated entirely.
If we could draw a line under history and say the past doesn't matter that would be great but of course it's not that simple, it's never simple.
Look up the 2012 ceasefire, then ask yourself why Israel didn't lift the blockade as they said they would.
I was arguing with someone about that. Their unwavering position was that population in Gaza is growing, so it cannot be a genocide. UN genocide definition was wrong in their eyes. I tried to compromise to call it "only" ethnic cleansing, they seemed unimpressed. Then they called me a tankie.
Just take that in: it's not a genocide because not enough evil sand people died. What the actual fuck?
What the fuck. Who are they listening to? I have also heard the "UN genocide definition is wrong" argument - but because it's incomplete. The UN definition is too strict to categorize all genocides into.
Shooting from tbe hip on this exact stat, but 10 - 15% of the population of Gaza is over 25. Gaza is basically 2 million children and teenagers. Whom all have PTSD.
36% are over 25.
Does the term "good guys" make sense outside of comic book movies?
When the news reports deaths, Israeli's are "killed," and Palestinians "die."