this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2023
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Good discussion, there. I like the idea of allowing it to be set per instance; while it doesn't hide the votes from admins, changing the in-instance presentation of the data does allow an instance to customize the "feel" of the instance... much like Beehaw chooses not to use downvotes at all.
I'm on the fence re displaying them. I use the downvotes activity to search for bots / astroturfers and it DOES allow identification of bigots who downvote for that reason, but it also does provide a means of harassing someone for a downvote.
Really, a cultural shift from "Downvote = disagree" to "Downvote =Anti-factual, low effort, or bot" is needed.
Maybe making upvotes counter downvotes is a decent start? Right now, kbin is weighted toward downvotes; some users with thousands of upvotes and hundreds of downvotes are sitting in the negatives.
Kbin uses boosts as upvotes for their karma calculation, which is why you see the QI style scoring. Strange system.
Yeah, that I get... it's just not intuitive for users. If downvote = -1 rep, then most people are going to assume that upvote = +1 rep, with boost being something like a "look at this post" option. But maybe that's just me?
I agree with you. It doesn't make sense to me. If it was me it would be =If(or(boost=1,upvote=1), karma=karma+1,karma=karma)
Yeah, this is a consequence of recent changes. It has already been fixed on the test instances. The changes will soon be implemented on kbin.social
You're the programming man!
One thing I love about kbin? @ernest is super responsive. Looks like we'll see a fix soon enough!
This is bug. It's fixed in dev. Shortly before the great migration started a change was made to bring kbin in line with lemmy but the bit that calculated the "karma" was missed and so it still uses boosts.
Not that I agree with the concept of karma.
Though I was skeptical at first, I much prefer the "positive votes only" style that some Lemmy instances use. If you don't have anything nice to say, etc etc etc. Downvotes, at least, seem to suppress peoples' willingness to discuss controversial opinions.
I understand, but it also makes it a lot more difficult to quickly make trolling and spam disappear.
I think the Lemmy instances that disable downvotes are also the instances that have more heavy-handed policies and moderation. They're essentially centralizing moderation to the admins and mods rather than relying on community self-policing through downvotes.
That's a very excellent point and shows the necessary trade-off to make that work.
@trynn One could argue with that. But Beehaw arguments that even without downvotes a self regulating community in form of upvotes is still in place. Because upvoted comments are on top. So the effect with or without downvotes is basically the same, from regulation point of view. But with downvotes it has an additional strong psychological effect.
But you are also right that such communities without a downvote mechanism do actually try to enforce through explicit moderation.
I know from my Reddit days that people try to mute people by downvoting an opinion they don't like. And once people have downvotes, many sheeps follow. And that in turn could lead to discussions that are popular only. That's why I am actually not hating this concept.
Often, the option to downvote is the only thing stopping me from getting sucked into some stupid argument with an idiot. It is a massive productivity booster. Downvote and move on.
I wish kbin would hide posts with lots of downvotes...
Meh I'll say what's on my mind if I feel the need... whether ya like it or not doesnt trouble me
I've had some time to think about it and I think I actually like the current setup. "Boost" provides more visibility to a post, while "upvote" and "downvote" is synonymous with agree/disagree.
In a way, I can disagree with someone AND boost it. Disagreeing with someone doesn't have to be hostile. I think it would be healthy if a community could disagree with each other in a civil manner.
I also like that if someone disagrees, that person cannot influence if the post gets less visibility.
Except downvoting does reduce content's visibility, and people are downvoting content that they don't really have anything to do with because it shows up in their All feed. Certain niche magazines and magazines for vulnerable communities are at risk of vote bullying in the current system.