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Civilian deaths are indefensible, whether done by Hamas or Israel | Rajan Menon
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
260 points (100.0% liked)
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The fact that this is only an “opinion” is a fucking travesty
The travesty is how many people are unable to say this out loud. Everyone is stuck in their black & white tribalism, making them blind for their own sides atrocities.
You can be pro Palestine and still condemn Hamas. You can be critical of the Israeli government and still grief for all the innocent Hamas victims. It's not actually that hard to be a decent human being.
uhhhHHHH nuh-uh dude, you have to pick ONE OR THE OTHER
So frustrating that this is a point that needs arguing in the modern day.
Personally I don't want to say it out loud because I'm just so mentally exhausted from the screaming. I know (like know, not just feel) that if I say this out loud in a more public space then somebody is gonna scream at me over it. And I just don't want that anymore. I feel in this instance it's better to just keep silent because I just hate it when people get so uppity at me over this kind of thing.
I got downvoted for arguing with a douche that was actively taking sides in a debate over which side kills more children.
This is where we are now.
I mean it's not a debate, Israel by 36x.
(2008-2020 because those are the numbers I was able to find: https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties)
Strong Agree ! You took the words right out of my mouth.
I can be pro-palestinian people and still think that after several decades of not being able to suppress the violent factions inside their nation, they should completely bail off from that general area.
would you say that to people in every single colonialist country? e.g. the US?
USA seemed to rather successfully suppress the violent factions inside their nation, several times.
their nation was literally built on top of violence.
All nations are built and maintained by violence, either directly or by threat of it.
It's a core component of sovereignty. To be able to call your government sovereign you must have the capacity to resist both external and internal actors from being able to overthrow you.
You must also be willing and able to use violence against those under your rule who disobey your laws (i.e, arresting a murderer).
That's probably the norm. Finland, the posterboy of peace, started its independence with a civil war and continued by joining the Nazis in WW2 against Soviet Union.
Seems to me that there are two kinds of nations on this planet: dead ones and those that were at some point based on violence.
Indeed. Every moral person should understand this without being told.
The fact that people don’t understand the differences in style and purpose between fact-based reporting and opinion pieces is a travesty. There is no way this can be anything other than an opinion piece because of its topic and tone. Whether you agree or disagree or find its position to be self-evident is irrelevant. It simply does not meet the standards of traditional fact-based reporting. Which people today don’t seem to understand the value of.
Obama changed the military's criteria for civilian deaths so he could pretend his numbers were lower.
I don't know that I'd call it an opinion. Civilian deaths are an eventuality we have no choice but to accept, especially here in the US, where we're making war in six, seven, or eight countries at once and it's normal.
Sounds like you don't know what the word opinion means. Hint: literally any statement based on morality is an opinion.
That's an opinion, though. Not a fact. It's actually just one theory in ethics.
The definition of what an opinion is is not an opinion.
No, but this is an opinion:
No, it's not. Facts are statements about what is. Statements about what should be—which is what moral statements are—are always opinions.
I can't fucking believe I'm arguing with people who literally don't know what the word opinion means. It's not rocket science.
Perhaps you should read about more about the different theories surrounding whether morality is always objective "as a fact".