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Rescuers recover more than 260 bodies at music festival attacked by Hamas (www.independent.co.uk)

submitted 11 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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The Israeli rescue service Zaka says its paramedics removed more than 260 bodies from a music festival that came under attack by Hamas militants.

The total figure of bodies found is expected to be higher, as other paramedic teams were also working in the area and Zaka added that the bodies “haven’t all been collected yet”.

Early on Saturday morning, Hamas targeted Nova music festival, a techno rave in the desert near the border with Gaza.

Videos shared on social media and by Israeli news outlets showed dozens of festival-goers running through an open field as gunshots rang out. Many hid in nearby fruit orchards or were gunned down as they fled.

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[-] thoro@lemmy.ml 158 points 11 months ago

"I used to have support for the Native Americans, but then a tribe massacred an outpost on the land that was slowly being carved from them by colonizers. Now I've lost all goodwill for their struggle"

The indigenous, oppressed peoples proceed to get wiped out and the colonizing states take over the entire land mass

This type of violence does not need to celebrated. It should be mourned as tragic. Its perpetrators condemned.

But so many are applying fairness or rules to a conflict that has neither.

If you create the conditions for war and terrorism, do not be surprised when war and terrorism come.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 47 points 11 months ago

You can still condemn the terrorists -- 99% of the people in those conditions have chosen not to go on a murderous rampage of civilians.

I agree though, by and large. Hamas is the problem here, not Palestinians, and Hamas should be condemned by everybody. Its hard to say that they're trying to help Palestinians when they do attacks like this, knowing full well they are associated with Palestine. The attack has certainly changed my perspective about them operating out of civilian buildings. They're using Palestinians as living hostages.

It would be in everybody's best interest for a global coalition to root them out and Israel to get a non apartheid government. But we all know none of that is going to happen.

[-] sederx@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

actually there was ~1000 attacckers coming from gaza thats 0.05% of the population

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[-] GiveMemes@jlai.lu 40 points 11 months ago

There's a difference between attacking unarmed civilians at a music festival and war. The terrorists should always be condemned, and you're painting with far too broad of a brush here.

There's a difference between freedom fighters and murderers.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 17 points 11 months ago

I agree with your main point. The actions of the Hamas are abhorrent. But many here are equating it with the will of all Palestinians and that's simply not true.

I don't understand how these acts, which clearly will not help Palestinians, can be seen as the something they all would want.

[-] fubo@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Last time I checked, only fascists believe "the will of an ethnic group" is even a thing.

[-] GiveMemes@jlai.lu -1 points 11 months ago

I don't think it's the will of all Palestinians and absolutely shouldn't be considered as such, but that's why the denunciation must be absolute in order to bring legitimacy to the cause. It's the same reason MLK would leave cities if rioting began. I wish it didn't have to be this way but too many people are unable to think with a healthy dose of nuance.

[-] bobman@unilem.org 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

There’s a difference between attacking unarmed civilians

I hope you're one of the first to condemn Israel when they kill at least 10x as many Palestinian civilians in retaliation for this.

You know, in addition to how many more Palestinians civilians they've already killed.

[-] GiveMemes@jlai.lu 13 points 11 months ago

Absolutely. Israel is the definition of a terrorist state. Imagine nuance

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[-] nbafantest@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago

If you create the conditions for war and terrorism, do not be surprised when war and terrorism come.d

What do you think raping and massacring people at a music festival is going to do?

That clearly isn't "fighting back". It's not war, its not even terrorism. They aren't achieving any sort of win, or working towards independence.

This is honestly a disgusting comment.

[-] teuniac_@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

What do you think raping and massacring people at a music festival is going to do?

Nothing, just cause more suffering. But this isn't a bad guy vs good guy argument. The point that's being made is that extremism tends to be a product of its environment.

Please note that this is not an anti-Israel line of arguing.

Conditions in Gaza are terrible and many people have lost loved ones during their lives there. It creates an environment where extremism can flourish. It's not a certainty, but the probability is just much higher in environments that are severely deprived.

The actions of Hamas are inexcusable, and Israel will surely want to bring them to justice. But after that it's time to acknowledge that if conditions in Gaza are kept as poor as they are, the chances of this type of violence happening again are almost guaranteed. It's also in the interest of Israel to allow and facilitate improved conditions in Gaza.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 9 points 11 months ago

There's a large population oppressed. A large part of that population suffers in silence, a small part of that population suffers and raises protest, a smaller part of that population becomes politically savvy travels the world and raises awareness at the geopolitical stage, a smaller part of that population is so angry they just lash out and do whatever damage they can to their oppressors.

This pattern is ingrained in the human condition. We've seen it countless times. In many struggles. If we condemn an entire population by the acts of a few, we turn the entire population into the most violent actors.

So the question shouldn't be do you support Hamas or do you support the Israeli state, that's a false dichotomy. The question should be what options are we giving the Palestinian people that are better than supporting Hamas?

[-] rckclmbr@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Well, we definitely didn't give them the option to keep their homes that they got kicked out of

[-] bobman@unilem.org 23 points 11 months ago

If you create the conditions for war and terrorism, do not be surprised when war and terrorism come.

This is exactly why they're so surprised. They thought that Palestinians should just roll over and take it up the ass, like god intended, the natural order of things.

There's only an issue when the oppressed fight back.

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[-] sederx@programming.dev 5 points 11 months ago

well put.

oppress a population until they fight back and then yell terrorism

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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023

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