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This might prevent a lot of women from going to school or work if their male guardians don't let them step out without Niqab or Buqra (which is the real problem).
I wish people would just leave women the fuck alone when it comes to their choice of dress and put this much needed focus into ensuring that all women are able to make their own choices.
Their choice huh
You think you've found some logical inconsistency, but you haven't. They're talking about IN GENERAL, people need to stfu about women's clothing. Including the men in an unapologetically patriarchal country.
Yeah rhis is what happens when you take phrases out of context. I meant they should have the choice to not wear it if they don't want to. I explained a bit more about my position in other comments under this discussion.
Good thing in the US we all have complete freedom in how we can dress. We would never persecute people for not dressing in the way our society says they should be dressing based on their genitals. Er... Wait.
(Yes I know it's not the same, but it comes from the same place of ignorance, and this is exactly where we are headed if we allow it to continue to escalate)
Why are you talking about the US to me?
You can't even write 2 sentences without contradicting yourself. It's their choice, but their male guardian wouldn't let them out without it?
It should be their choice, but with guardians they’ll just grow up abused and school-less.
Force kids to have to go to school? That’s what western nations do. Parents get in huge trouble for not making sure their kids are in school.
Not sure what the situation is in Egypt, but seems like that would be a great way to get these people to pull their daughters out of regular schools and start homeschooling them, giving them the absolute bare minimum education they can get away with, and further cut them off from the world.
And possibly a few would go full psycho and do some honor killing bullshit "I'll be damned if I let my daughter out of the house with her face uncovered, I'd rather kill her"
Homeschooling isn't allowed in the majority of places, although i'm unsure about Egypt.
According to Wikipedia the status isn't quite clear in Egypt.
Information seems kind of sparse at least on the English language parts of the internet that I can easily search but the gist I was able to get (not that I'm super confident in this being correct) is that children need to be enrolled in a school between the ages of 4 and 14, but some schools allow homeschooling as long as they take the required exams in school. And of course some parents just do what they want to anyway regardless of the law.
Based on that, I could imagine some parents begrudgingly allowing their daughters to go to school up until they turn 14 and then not allowing them to continue beyond that due to this change when otherwise they might have.
I found this in Arabic that explains it quite well. In some situations, parents are able to home school their children: if schools are bad and students don't perform as well (or lose their "morals"), if they need assisted learning, or if they are high school students they can take some school courses online and only attend the exams (such as doing the IGCSE). Also seems like there are some institutions that help parents home school children.
https://nooun.net/%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7/different-options-to-educate-your-children#i-3
We had a building guard in the apartment block where my parents lived who was an Egyptian national and had a daughter and a son and refused to send his daughter to school even though it was illegal in Jordan to not do so. However, most likely due to shitty beliefs + bad economy + Jordanian law for foreigners means that his daughter never made it to school and was just "married off" as soon as possible. My parents pleaded with him right and left but he would not budge. Reporting it to the authorities would most likely mean the girl would have been mistreated. I'm in no way saying this is a normal thing in Egyptian society based on this one perdon, but I'm trying to say that it happens a lot with a certain demographic and those kids need our help as adults around them.
I found this in Arabic that explains it quite well. In some situations, parents are able to home school their children: if schools are bad and students don't perform as well (or lose their "morals"), if they need assisted learning, or if they are high school students they can take some school courses online and only attend the exams (such as doing the IGCSE). Also seems like there are some institutions that help parents home school children.
https://nooun.net/%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7/different-options-to-educate-your-children#i-3
We had a building guard in the apartment who was an Egyptian national had a daughter and a son and refused to send his daughter to school even though it was illegal in Jordan to not do so. However, most likely due to shitty beliefs + bad economy + Jordanian law for foreigners means that his daughter never made it to school and was just "married off" as soon as possible. My parents pleaded with him right and left but he would not budge. Reporting it to the authorities would most likely mean the girl would have been mistreated. I'm in no way saying this is a normal thing in Egyptian society based on this one perdon, but I'm trying to say that it happens a lot with a certain demographic and those kids need our help as adults around them.
I think it might still happen even if it's illegal. They can do it at schools that don't care about attendance or say that the children have some kind of learning disability or mental problem preventing them from coming to school. As long as they go to exams, I'm assuming it can happen.
Looking at the other comment, the status of homeschooling seems somewhat ambiguous.
However, in my country where children must attend school until they're 18, what you described doesn't work. No child is exempt from this rule, save for those with extremely severe learning disabilities. And schools are extremely strict when it comes to non-attendence of minors. For instance, after 10 missing days each further missing day must be accompanied by a doctor's notice (or other proof if it's unrelated to health, such as attending a funeral of a family member during school hours). If there is no valid reason why the child was missing for so long, the parents will either receive a fine in the low thousands of dollars or a criminal investigation will be started.
Knowing a bit about Egypt, I think it's sadly not the case 😔
So, in order to not provoke their moronic parents, we should let them be oppressed. Got it.
I guess being from the middle east myself and having experineced this shit firsthand, yes - it is better for them to still have access to the workplace and school. Nothing in what I said supports guardians treating their children like shit or thinking they have any way in the live sofnwomen aged 18 and above. Ultimately the problem is women having less freedom, and I don't see how restricting that further with bans will do anyone any good.
Problems where the symptoms are fixed will still have root causes that run deeper and deeper. If you want these women out of these horrible situations and life, this is a bad way to do it.
Yea, cuz they’d get more oppressed if provoked. I’m not sure if I believe in that but that’s what they’re saying.
Well that a feature if personal choice. You just ignore all the influences all the bad things that happen you make the wrong choice
I feel like you misread my statement. Sorry if the English was wonky (I doubt it though).
My reading was they expressed concern that the guardians who imposed face coverings on these girls would deny them education rather than give up the garment, then frustration that some people, like those guardians feel they have the right to impose such rules. Seems consistent to me.
Learn to read. The 2 statements that were written are not contradictory.
🤣 What the hell is this comment? You honestly believe women want to wear black beekeeper suits?
I can't believe how blind people are to the suffering and degradation of women brought on by the Muslim fate.
Imagine they required, instead of women, all black people to wear this shit? Would you be here telling people "jUsT lEt bLaCk pEoPlE wEaR wHaT tHeY wAnT!"
These outfits, and forced make guardianship are inhumane vile bullshit and needs to be eradicated.
I'm an ex Muslim and wore hijab for 5-6 years.
What were your feelings about it at the time?
At the time I wore it out of "choice" but in retrospect it's clear that I was indoctrinated. I got religious purely from wanting to be a "good kid", ended up hearing that women should wear hijab when they get their periods. I got it at 12 so I put it on. My dad was encouraging and to him it's a mix of religious reasons and feeling like I look like a decent girl on a society with little respect for women, I think he was protective and worried, not religious and dominating. He didn't have a "choice" either: you cover your women or you risk appearing as an immoral person (even if you understand that these things are not really related).
It felt bad for the first year because I was the only student in my class for a headscarf on from grade 6 to 8. In the middle east, women wearing hijab at younger ages + having darker skin is associated with poverty and ignorance, so people looked down on me but others were happy I was covered. After that it felt like shit, but I didn't see what I could do because "god said so". A year later I was reading the Quran and hated the verse about husbands told to beat their wives, I called a friend on the phone and cried as I talked about this. She agreed at the time and later became an atheist too. My faith started to turn into hate and resentment for god who made me "less than others". A year after that, I discover Slayer, I'm on the internet more often, and finally decided to take the hijab off. It was not a pleasant experience.
Learn to read, my g.