this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
629 points (98.3% liked)

World News

39102 readers
2201 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I am so sad that the mass protests had no effect. Poor Iranian people, especially women. What can anyone do to free them?

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Conservatism is a global plague. Pacifism has never worked to cure this disease. Until the normal people rise up and do the horrific dirty work needed to erase this disease, it will continue to infect and kill.

The cure is not clean, but history has proven that conservatism is a fatal disease when left untreated.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The protests weren't peaceful. They were riotous. It didn't work, unfortunately.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm aware. And I am heart-broken. The violence, unfortunately, must involve not stopping until the conservatives no longer exist in any position of power. Extreme violence with a lack of mercy may be required. I don't think the Iranian people really have that in them. I hope I am proven wrong some day. This government was foisted upon them by us. This conservative government was not entirely the people's fault in this case.

For the rest of us, wherever the conservative disease persists, the natural result will always be brutal oppression of the vulnerable. Always. A cure must be administered long before the disease becomes this advanced.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

They didn't work because they weren't fighting Islam they were fighting a more extreme version of it. Diet Islam vs Real Islam = Real Islam winning.

Successful revolutions it is trivial to name Atheist/Diest leaders.

[–] DarthBueller@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.

Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist -- if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da'wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or "not real muslims."

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”

Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.

[–] DarthBueller@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a "real muslim" is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with "god," that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don't believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Oh, that's what you meant. That's... uh... how religions work in general? Like yeah if that's the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.

[–] DarthBueller@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.

The fact that you're willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.

That's true.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago

Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn't like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don't know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you'd be very clearly missing the point.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Start by protesting religion in your own country. Religion is bad everywhere. If some crazy groups want to believe in fairies, that's ok, just do it in your home and don't bring it out of there.

[–] duffman@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Publicly putting groups in your cross hairs tends to motivate said group.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Motivates said group to what?

[–] duffman@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whatever they perceive as defensive measures. Rallying against those they are threatened by, recruiting, doubling down on their commitment and beliefs.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Then the government must take stricter measurements against said groups. Lets see who lose at the end.

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What can anyone do to free them?

Arm them.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you get the arms to them?

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Well step 1 should not be selling drugs in Latin America. We already tried that.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think they had a very large effect, hence this pathetic pushback from the govt.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What can anyone do to free them?

The problem is religion. The best way to deconvert people is to show them that you can function without skydaddy. Allah (as a concept) has always been a narcissist, you are nothing without it.

Me personally if I was given the task I would move billions into generating content showing people of Iranian background living normal lives with diet-Islam to no-Islam. From movies and TV, to hiring Instagramers. An ocean of content being pumped into there every year.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the problem is the US-installed dictatorship, but I could be wrong Idk.

[–] hltdev@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

skydaddy I Lollled a bit 🤣🤣 🤣

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Thanks, wish I could claim to have coined the term. Such an improvement over "heavenly father".