this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
3173 points (98.3% liked)
Asklemmy
43950 readers
621 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That everything I buy can be measured as totalCost/wages*0.82=hoursCost.
I love measuring things in hours.
Let's assume I make 12/hr. Is 24 cans of soda really worth more (taxes) than an hour of work? 12 bucks might not sound too bad, but over an hours wages does.
This gets dangerous once you make semi decent money though. Like why would I take public transit that takes an hour to get there for $2.50, when I could just take a cab that costs $25 and only takes 30min to get there.
Like, sure...if making $50+/h one can justify it. But one could also instead save $23.50 for the piggy bank by taking the bus. And the 30min extra is not time one would have been at work getting paid anyway (unless your taking the bus/taxi to work I guess and actually gain 30min of pay).
Even when I was only making $25 an hour. I would place greater value on my personal time than money. If you are sacrificing hours out of your day on transport then you will life miserably.
For me public transit is 3.25 and it would have taken me an hour to get home. Walked home for free in about 45 mins. Or paid for a cab to bring me home in 5-7 mins for $17.
Sure I've almost lost an hours wages but I have an hour of my time back as well that I could put towards household chores or my hobbies.
True, or you could enjoy the commute, in which case is a double win.
But yea, money is basically time debt owed to you by society, so if spending money to get time, it balances out. Kinda like how spending money on assets doesnt directly affect net worth.
That's when you start calculating your hourly wage once all your livings costs have been deducted. Once you amortize your housing costs, car, food, retirement, student loans, and whatever other bad decisions that you're still paying for every month and figure out your hourly wage AFTER all that it's a lot easier to keep a level head.
Doing this when you make $12/hr is much too depressing though.
good thing I don’t see myself in the danger zone for that then
24 cans of soda probably embodies a lot more than 1 hour total work to create for a lot of people. Planting and harvesting the coca, mining the bauxite ore and refining it into aluminum, etc etc. The main reason that much cola is available to you at that price is that the coca and aluminum probably come from somewhere where workers get paid a lot less than $12/hr.
I'm all for people being paid more, but in a just and equitable world a case of soda would probably cost more than it does now.
That’s interesting. Comparing the time input across various income levels. Does that essentially mean the person getting paid more per hour has those being paid less working for them?
One of the functions of colonialism (in this case colonialism via exploitation of labor and resources of the global south economically) is to transfer wealth from the colony to the empire (we call these the Imperial Core regions).
I'm going to use a really simplified example and some made up numbers to illustrate. Say a pound of coffee takes 1 hour of labor to produce. The people producing it in Ethiopia are being paid $1 an hour to produce it. A capitalist from the Imperial Core buys that pound of coffee for $2, ships it to the Core for another $1, and sells it for $5.
The capitalist makes $2 and the buyer gets a pound of coffee for $5. Now imagine if the worker in Ethiopia is being paid $12 an hour. The capitalist cannot buy a pound of coffee for anything less than $12. After $1 shipping and his $2 cut (assuming he does not inflate his cut because he's taking a percentage of the sale), the pound of coffee is now $15 to the buyer.
The buyer does not have the Ethiopian worker "working for them" in the strictest sense, but the buyer does benefit from getting their pound of coffee for 1/3 the price they would otherwise have to pay.
This is why Marxists say that the current living standards of the so-called First World are being propped up by the economic exploitation of the global south, even if the residents of the First World are not directly engaging in colonialism in the pith helmet and whips sense.
Another thing to keep in mind is that imperialism also has the effect of driving down wages in the imperial core since the capitalist can pay their workers less if the price of basic, essential commodities can be decreased by super-exploitation in the imperial periphery. This is a major reason why real wages in the US have been stagnant for a while, for example. So this would have a counterbalancing effect on how much a first-world worker would need to pay proportionally to their income for a case of soda if the process of imperialism were ended.
Wow I was really hoping for some kind of mathematical discussion but I should have known a Marxist would show up. It’s the only song we play any more.
You're right. Marxism famously doesn't involve any mathematics. This is why Marxists find volumes II and III of Das Kapital to be light, easily comprehensible, reading.
They simplified it so it would be comprehensible for you, you dolt. They even wrote that at the beginning. If you really wanna get into the math, just read Das Kapital. Here's a brief excerpt speaking about the price of linen