this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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Would more men be open to going to therapy if they had resources tailored specifically for them, and if the office had Emotional Support Animals for appointment use?

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[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is a fantastic response, and it's good to see someone taking a practical view of time/money/availability concerns.

One aspect I haven't seen raised much is a slightly subtler parsing of the whole masculinity thing. Perhaps it's generational (I'm genx), perhaps it's cultural (I'm not from the US), but I think perceived weakness is a misreading of the motivation, or perhaps even a more-acceptable out, for many guys.

Perhaps this might give someone out there an angle they find useful, who knows?

A chunk of it from my perspective, and as best I can gather for a lot of guys I know, isn't about being seen as a pussy, it's just... my problem to deal with, not something anyone else has control over or responsibility for, any more than they can go pee for me when I need to. The anxiety here isn't jocks kicking sand in your face, it's the sitcom dad asking what the hell you expect him to do about it, idiot.

It's associated with and caused by cultural gender norms and the way we're raised, but I think it's a misleading oversimplification to suggest that it's just about not appearing masculine enough. It's not about being 'man enough' to tough it out, it's that as men, they're taught that the only resource they have is themselves.

And a second major facet is that for a lot of guys, losing control of their emotions in and of itself represents painful catastrophic failure. While guys definitely get punished and shamed for displaying vulnerability, the flipside of that is that they tend to rely on the resulting rigidity for refuge and protection. But especially since they get no opportunity to practice controlled, minor release of negative emotions, that protection is all or nothing; one good crack and the entire structure collapses. And that's not the cathartic but ultimately healing purge people think of it as, but rather a terrifying, traumatic and destructive breakdown of everything that's holding them together. And most guys I know would no more put themselves in that harm's way than they'd shove their arm down a garbage disposal.

Again: caused by shitty gender norms, but the connection isn't the one people usually paint. We're no longer told during our upbringing that boys don't cry; that's a horrible relic of the bad old days. Instead boys are told that only babies cry. Crying isn't feminised, it's infantilised. The shame associated is not due to being inadequately male, but inadequately adult (but only if you're male). This of course does women no favours; when men see crying in women as accepted and encouraged, what they hear is that women must be fundamentally infantile on some level themselves.

If we want to see better emotional resilience in men specifically, and better use of mental health resources by men, I think the most effective change would be a cultural shift creating a safer environment in which they can be vulnerable. There's no use telling men that they should be vulnerable, in a society that will just hurt them for it; the ground needs to be prepared first. That means a hard, critical look at gendered expectations around emotional expression in children, and a significant change to how they're raised. It means treating phrases like 'man-baby', 'man-flu' and 'male tears' as toxic and offensive on par with racial slurs, and a bunch of surrounding attitudes treated like the ingrained racism of boomer grandparents.

It'd be really nice if we could stop telling people how to do their gender altogether, and stop using gender-compliance as a proxy for admirable character traits. Every time well-meaning people promote the notion that Real Men Are (generous / honest / hardworking / etc.), they're pushing the converse, that insufficiently-masculine people are (mean / shifty / lazy / etc.), and that makes the whole problem worse, not better.

[–] quixotic120@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This is pretty much what I meant by that fucked up misinterpretation of stoicism

Like you have the actual Aurelius stoicism which has some very good value; everyone should read meditations once or twice. But then it’s been cliff notes’d and perverted by a bunch of people into to lose the message entirely from “be in control of your emotions” to what you’ve described: horrific rigidity to keep it all in at all times until of course it doesn’t work anymore and you break down spectacularly. Like somehow the message has gone from “control” to “emotional numbness”

A similar dynamic has happened with nihilism where some the writings on it are not so bleak and terrible; that it is an expression of freedom. But over the years it’s been perverted into nothing matters, why bother