Sure! The homeless guy is very likely uninsured. They might die in the streets because of this. The billionaire on the other hand would get higher quality healthcare. What would not be happening though, is the billionaire paying for the homeless guy's healthcare.

Now of course, a consequence of that is the homeless man dying. Ethically, this is an incredibly shitty system. THAT'S why we need single payer universal healthcare. However, a consequence of that would be the rich paying for the poor people's healthcare.

The minimum wage worker simply doesn't have the same quality insurance.

THERE! So the billionaire pays more to get higher quality insurance. In a single payer universal healthcare system, the billionaire and the minimum wage worker both get the same quality of healthcare despite paying different amounts. This is what I mean.

You have absolutely no idea how a world without single payer works because you assume we have basic shit you take for granted.

I have experience with the Indian multi payer, non universal healthcare system. It sucks a lot more than the US. U guys at least have the affordable healthcare act, which prohibits discrimination against ppl with pre-existing conditions by insurance companies. Indians don't even have that. The universal single payer healthcare system that I have experience with is the Canadian one.

Now, of course the arguments against universal healthcare fall flat on ethical grounds, as you explained above. I am not saying that universal healthcare is bad or whatever. However, that does not change the fact that universal healthcare follows the "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" thing. Rich or poor, everyone gets the same quality of healthcare despite paying different prices. The rich here are subsidizing the poor.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that. The concepts of private property themselves cause trouble, where we lose all sight of humanity, blah blah blah. That's a discussion for another day.

The point is, if you are rich and want a better life for yourself, you probably should be against universal healthcare. If u r anything but that, and want a better life for everyone- u, ur family, ur friends, or just society in general, universal healthcare is a common sense choice.

Huh??? I never even presented my own ethical position. We were talking about TECHNICALITIES here. Suddenly u'r accusing me of holding a shitty ethical position? Fuck right off.

I rlly try to be as polite as possible online. But jeez r u guys fkin stupid. We're having a logical argument about technicalities for fuck's sake. I said a thousand times that I support single payer universal healthcare. I love it, and I don't want to lose it. I'm just pointing at the economic exchange here and how it is different from a non-universal multi payer healthcare system. That's it. But NOOOOOOO how could I do that??? Ugh

Oh fuck right off. My political positions r my political positions because I've formed synthesis by evaluating both, thesis and antithesis. I consider myself a leftist. This however does not mean that I shouldn't talk about antithesis for leftist theses. We're not in a cult, uk.

What about the premiums though? Say the insurance premiums for x amount of coverage are 100 dollars. Doesn't matter if I'm a billionaire or if I'm homeless. The premium stays the same.

In a single payer universal healthcare system however, the premium would be a percentage of my income (collected via taxes). Suddenly, the 100 dollars becomes hundreds of thousands of dollars. Therefore, from my perspective, I am "paying for someone else's healthcare". This is the technicality that I'm talking about.

Now of course, fuck my perspective because fuck billionaires. This however, is out of scope of the discussion.

Insurance premiums aren't decided by my income. They are decided by my probability of needing the coverage offered. Therefore, if I am rich, I end up paying a smaller percentage of my income on insurance premiums for the same coverage compared to a poor person.

Single payer universal healthcare makes healthcare more expensive for rich people and cheaper for poor people. I'm not saying that's bad ofc.

Agreed. The ethical argument for universal healthcare triumphs everything else, assuming that we value human life equally.

True. I'm playing Devil's advocate here. These r arguments that I've heard that make sense technically, but not ethically. I'm not saying that real life me would want to give up my universal healthcare lol. It's a safety net that I absolutely want in my life (for selfish reasons as well)