this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023

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Dies for your sins (feddit.de)

submitted 1 year ago by atheist@feddit.de to c/atheism@feddit.de

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[–] iesou@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean technically, if you really read about hell in the bible, it's only the only place god is not. I mean it's described as an awful lake of fire and so on, but that's just because the people who were reading it needed to hear that the people persecuting them were going to get theirs.

But yeah, what you said is what most people believe, I just think it's funny that the word for Hell when Jesus talks about it is actually Gahanna which is the place outside Jerusalem where they burned all their refuse.

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Essentially: "If you're a trash person, you'll be thrown out and burned on the trash heap. But if you love me, that proves you're not a trash person and it's the only way to prove that."

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, there's actually a lot about the faith that is purely metaphysical, but had to be described as something that people who lack abstract thinking could understand. Which is where we got the Lake of Fire from. Remember Dante's Inferno is a novel, it was written by an edge Lord, it is not official church doctrine even if pop culture movies about hell will draw on it for inspiration.

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Revives anyway coz it's too boring to stay dead

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[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Jesus: "I made this checklist of what we call 'sins', and you seem to be violating a lot of them!"

Human: "your checklist sucks."

Jesus: "well that's fine, that's fine... you can keep on violating them and I'll forgive you as long as you swear that I am the best. Then I'm going to need you to give me 10% of your income, as a gift.. and I also want you to tell everybody else about this sweet deal I've made with you."

Human: "fuck off you crazy wannabe gangster."

[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Remember back when atheism was just about not believing in god?

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[–] lorez@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

"dies"

[–] SexyTimeSasquatch@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

It's also like when a guy scams a tourist by insisting something is free but then demands a tip after they accept it. Like, oh yeah, this gift of Jesus dying for your sins is totally free, no charge... But hey, here's the tithe plate on Sunday.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

"Sounds like your god has everyone covered. Apparently one guy dying was all it took."

"... why would my participation matter, if your god killed that guy on everyone's behalf? Was that guy magically blocking everyone's submission? I don't get how begging for mercy and killing one dude can both be important."

"Your god killed his own kid? Like Saturn devouring his son? That's fucked up! If you have infinite power to do anything, why would you choose that?"

"Well if he came back then what's it matter that he died?"

"What do you mean he's also his own son? Your-- your god killed himself? Your god was dead for three days. Was anything different on those three days?"

[–] TryingToEscapeTarkov@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

If he already died for my sins then why would I go to hell? That shit is prepaid.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

“full payment” = “check this box”

[–] PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbt 2 points 1 year ago

The Catholic idea of being tortured in hell is completely made up and has no basis in the bible. They just copied the underworld from Greece and changed it a little bit to attract greeks to christianity

[–] RIPandTERROR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

I'd rather worship Tom nook. At least I get a home of the deal.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Okay I keep having to explain this, but if you are going to mock the theology you need to actually be familiar with what it says instead of trying to dunk on a pop culture over simplification.

Hell is not a place, this is a pop culture simplification, kind of like how no one actually believes that death is when a big skeleton takes you away.

It is believed that God is the source of all love and light and all the good shit in the universe, by tuning him out and severing your connection to God you become eternally damned, which is a state in which you don't feel God's love. This isn't because God decided that he was going to stop loving you, it's more that in a spiritual sense you just aren't taking his calls anymore, and allegedly this is painful.

To put it in simple terms, imagine you actually have a loving father who cares for and supports you, but for whatever reason you have decided that he is an asshole, and you'd much rather hang out with the cool kids. They keep getting you into trouble, and your dad who wants to help out keeps getting voicemail.

No I'm not saying that that's what I believe, I'm saying this is how theology typically sees the state of Eternal damnation, the Lake of Fire is just a pop culture oversimplification inspired by allegorical metaphors in the Bible.

Like I said another problem with you mocking religion, but understand what you are mocking.

It is for this reason why Christians in online circles often say to each other "Atheists do not disbelief what God is, but what they claim God to be"

[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don’t disbelieve anything that god is or claim them to be. God isn’t a thing of this world beyond the minds of the imaginative and insane, their is nothing to believe about something that’s never existed. I could just as assuredly argue that Pokémon are real if I was imaginative or insane enough.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You misunderstand the quote, it isn't saying that you're making claims about what God is (Your claim is that God isn't, which makes sense given that there's no evidence for such a thing)

The quote is saying that your attempts to describe what Christians believe about God, is inaccurate to what the Church actually teaches, and therefore makes for a poor debunking.

[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I suppose I haven’t been in that situation, I never attempt to belittle anyone’s life comfort. Shit is hard, if having that belief and community helps then that’s great for them. My experience has mostly been small towns (like 1-20k population small). The most I’ve done is say that I don’t feel their personal beliefs are a valid reason to impede on anyone else’s personal beliefs or lack of. My grandma is the only person I ever felt uncomfortable around, she was so sweet otherwise but would say pretty hateful stuff about me, not because I was unkind, disrespectful, or anything wrong other than, I’m sorry grandma I’m just not into religion. With that said, you are correct in that I misunderstood the quote.

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[–] PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbt 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're a fool.

Luke Skywalker is a man. He's a jedi. He grew up on a farm. He's a hero to the rebellion. He's the son of Darth Vader. These are all true statements everyone can agree on. Everyone knows all these things. It doesn't matter that he isn't real.

If you told me that Luke Skywalker was a tree, I'd call you a fool. Luke Skywalker isn't real, but we can all still agree he isn't a tree.

Hopefully, this example has hammered into your overly literal mind that facts can still be true and false when they describe something that doesn't exist.

Atheists claim that Deus burns people in a lake of father, AND that he doesn't exist. You still claim a version of him, just like you claim a version of Luke Skywalker.

Christians are calling you out for claiming that a fake version of Deus doesn't exist. And they're right, you're fools for it. Deny the existence of the actual nonexistent christian god, not a fake nonexistent christian god.

[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago

Nah, sorry, I’m not into your fan fiction. I claim no existence of whoever you claim Deus is or your Jedi. Just because someone put their fantasy into a movie doesn’t make it any more or less real than some fairy tail sand hippy because passion is the Christ is a movie.

[–] theforkofdamocles@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Until I left home for work and college, I used to go to church thrice per week. My grandfather and uncle were preachers, my mom taught Sunday school, and my grandmother was a church organist. I have never heard anyone who didn’t preach the more literal lake of fire concept. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but if it does, as someone said above, yours is a more liberal interpretation vs what many or perhaps most christian churches espouse.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

No it isn't, it's actually what the Catholic Church and most mainstream versions of Christianity support, only Biblical Literalists and Hollywood think otherwise

[–] kshade@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

This isn’t because God decided that he was going to stop loving you, it’s more that in a spiritual sense you just aren’t taking his calls anymore, and allegedly this is painful.

I never got a call and I'm not in "spiritual pain". He's altogether untraceable, unless you want to play the game of ascribing good things with perfectly worldly causes to the alleged, omnipotent "good things happen because of me"-guy. It makes no sense, especially since there's plenty of gods with similar properties on the market.

the Lake of Fire is just a pop culture oversimplification inspired by allegorical metaphors in the Bible.

It being a place you're sent to is older than Christianity and plenty of Christian sects still believe that it is. Maybe try convincing them first, at least they agree on the there being a god at all.

Also what's libmbo/purgatory then? Another set of metaphors?

It is for this reason why Christians in online circles often say to each other “Atheists do not disbelief what God is, but what they claim God to be”

Atheists don't believe in any god period, that's kinda the whole concept.

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[–] ulkesh@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I guess I also have to keep explaining this…

Atheists do not disbelief what God is, but what they claim God to be

…that’s why Christians in online circles are clueless about atheists. We don’t claim a god. Christians do (among many other religionist types). The burden of proof is on them. My disbelief in a god is the same disbelief that my refrigerator will decide to wake up, sprout legs, walk out of my house and go live with another family. I make no claim of existence about either.

And since no religionist in history who does make such a claim of the existence of a god has yet to scientifically, objectively, with peer-review, proven such a deity exists, I have no reason to believe one exists.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually the quote is in reference to how atheist interpretations of the Bible often miss Historical Context or mistake allegory for literal.

The fact that you misunderstood it kinda proved the point.

I don't believe in God either, but I find philosophy and mythology interesting which is why I know this...

That and a close friend of mine is Catholic.

[–] ulkesh@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You made a statement on how Christians in online circles view atheists. I refute their premise. That's not misunderstanding. That's simply stating they are wrong. But it's cool that you keep fighting for their way of incorrect thinking. I'm sure they appreciate it.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not defending them, I'm merely pointing out that you are mocking something you don't understand. I'm not saying Christianity is unmockable, I'm saying, it's way funnier when you actually know what you're making fun of.

[–] PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbt 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You didn't refute their premise, because you didn't understand it in the first place.

[–] ulkesh@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What did you do, create a separate account to reply with? Or do idiots just flock together in this thread? You’re not worth my time.

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[–] PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbt 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Okay, fine, I'll prove that the gods exist.

Richard Dawkins coined the idea of a "meme", which is the cultural equivalent of a gene. It's an idea that can grow and spread through a population, and mutate along the way. The most successful memes are spread more, and so over time memes evolve to become better at spreading themselves. Anything can be a meme. A meme could be a recipe, or a style of fashion, or a joke, or a technology, or a language. Most memes are helpful.

Some memes are so successful that people worship them. Chaos magicians call these memes "egregores". Egregores rule our society. Capitalism is an egregore, and so is the USA, and so is Jesus. These are ideas so powerful they shape the course of history itself. Why did the Conquistadores try to exterminate south american religions and teach the locals about "God"? Because a meme told them to. Why did the crusades happen? A meme did it.

Egregores are powerful creatures capable of steering the course of humanity. They are arguably alive, and are capable of taking intentional actions to secure their own survival and dominance. They are worshipped by billions of people, and are capable of having a personal relationship with every one of their worshippers, because they are spread across millions of brains and have access to the computational power of all those brains at once.

Egregores are real. How are they not gods?

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