this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient (www.eurogamer.net)
submitted 1 year ago by nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works to c/games@sh.itjust.works
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[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This article speaks right out of my soul, when comparing Starfield and Cyberpunk 2077 2.0.

The quest qualtiy itself is comparable, but the delivery of Starfield makes it solely my job to create immersion (which I can and will do), while Cyberpunk 2077 2.0 grabs me by my balls and drags me into the world.

Spoiler for a small quest in CyberpunkWhen the barkeeper leans slightly forward, looks carefully right and left to make sure no one is listening and then tells me he suspects his wife sees someone else, I smell his parfume and I notice he relaxes his hurting back by stemming his arms onto the desk, because he is doing a double shift. Having Silverhand commenting on every step of the quest and turning it into a noir detctive story, making fun of me, added more immersion to a "follow person, report back"-mission. That I then can just call the quest giver on the phone, as a normal being would feels life like.

A similar quest in Starfield:
I talked to the barkeeper in Starfield from the wrong angle and he only turned his head and it was very uncanny valley, because over the whole conversation I was questioning how he can still talk with a broken neck.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Every Starfield quest:

Questgiver: "Hello, I don't know you stranger, and I don't trust outsiders. Can I help you? Oh, you want a quest? This evil company in Neon does bad shit and I need you to inject this virus and make sure it doesn't get back to me. Also, the mayor here is evil AF. Don't say that out loud, he has ears everywhere. I trust you stranger with my life. Have 8000 creds for picking up my mail, and 2000 creds and a unique purple gun for blowing up half of the city."

[–] zaph@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I talked to the barkeeper in Starfield from the wrong angle and he only turned his head and it was very uncanny valley, because over the whole conversation I was questioning how he can still talk with a broken neck.

They might have fixed it by now but a certain little fortune teller has a very similar issue in an elevator in cyberpunk.

[–] Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

For a fortune teller, that's a feature

[–] Aganim@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

After helping him out I had a certain Ripperdoc showing which arm he operates with by raising it. Only his arm rotated backwards as if his elbow was turned around 180 degrees, arm clipping through his biceps.

But at least in Cyberpunk I've got the feeling that a bug like this is an honest oversight, whereas Starfield gives me the feeling that Creation Engine (2.0 these days?) should have have been killed, burned and buried after Skyrim. Each game since (and including) Oblivion I've felt like I'm looking at limitations I already noticed in the previous game built with Creation Engine or NetImmerse/GameBryo.

[–] zaph@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

I haven't played starfield and don't intend to but I played cyberpunk on launch thanks to a covid scare and even on launch it was a good game to me. Had it's problems but I got 300 hours out of it before the year ended.

[–] thorbot@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Starfield is ancient according to the developers, they’ve been working on it for 25 years

[–] kurcatovium@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If this is work of 25 years, it's honestly quite sad.

[–] msage@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's always like this.

When you work on something for longer than 5 years, the tech and expectations from competing games will run ahead of you.

And you can't just rewrite the story and engine and map and characters every time you get delayed.

So you should just shoot every AAA project that lags more than 5 years on the spot. It's way too late for it at that time. And start from market analysis, not just rewriting everything in the 'current engine and style'.

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Or don't use an engine that was already over 5 years out of date when you started the project.

[–] msage@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Hey, Bethesda is already on life support, no need to punch down

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bethesda makes Starfield seems ancient.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're good at that. I remember trying Skyrim when it was new and we all didn't know there would be like 15 rereleases and it felt weirdly dated. I couldn't really put my finger on why, it just felt old.

[–] kurcatovium@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It felt like Oblivion reskin.

And Oblivion felt basically like Morrowind reskin with more polygons...

[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And less rpg :(

[–] kurcatovium@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Sadly yes. Morrowind was Bethesda's peak gaming moment tbh.

[–] Gorgeous_Sloth@sh.itjust.works 22 points 1 year ago

I absolutely don’t get why Bethesda sold Starfield as a "new generation rpg". It’s nothing but an archaic game with old mechanics. Don’t get me wrong, I’m really enjoying my time on the game so far (30/40h).

[–] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

I think what starfield is missing is full body animations that go along with conversations, seeing NPCs pick stuff up or pace around while talking and communicating through body language

[–] Shalakushka@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

This is such a weird take because Cyberpunk's storytelling was a series of Grand Theft Auto phone calls occasionally interspersed with "UR DYING V, I'M KEANU REEVES AND IM GONNA TAKE UR BODY LOL". There wasn't anything interesting about Cyberpunk's storytelling. I believe a Bethesda game could be more boring than that, but it doesn't retroactively make Cyberpunk great as a result.

[–] TRBoom@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Felt the same way about it. The plot device of the character potentially becoming Keanu really broke all motivation for me. Why would I complete the main plot if each mission made the infestation worse? I made this character, why would I be interested in watching them become someone else's Gary Stue? I wanted to be my Gary, not theirs.

The story would have been much improved by dropping Johnny ~~Mnemonic~~ Silverhands and instead having the partner, whose name escapes me because I only got to know him through 2 missions and a 30 second montage of us getting to know each other, as the ride along personality. Instead of him taking you over, he's fading away and you have to save him.

Throw in a heroic sacrifice from your semi AI partner at the end or a plot twist him into a villain Tyler Durdening your ass while you sleep and it could have been something magical.

[–] jivemasta@reddthat.com 16 points 1 year ago

The theme of cyberpunk is that you have a literal anti corp terrorist in your head, and how that is affecting V's psyche. Like there are points in the game where you choose some dialogue options and the game is like "is that V's opinion or Johnny's".

I think they should have not played up the "if left unchecked, he's going to kill you" sense of urgency bit though. But basically every open world game has the same problem with how do you reconcile having an open world, but also have a plot that needs moved forward. Like they can't just outright game over you if you just do side quests for a in-game week or so.

That's where starfield actually gets it right. You aren't the "chosen one", you are just a guy. The main plot of the game has no sense of urgency, because it's fully driven by how much you dig into the artifact mystery. Any one in constellation could be doing the same things you are doing, and getting the powers and finding more artifacts, they all have seen the same visions you have when they first touched one. Again, you aren't special.

[–] Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

That was ainiale my issue with the game. You've got a week to live, now go have fun doing side missions

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

Both are behind Baldurs Gate if we're making comparisons.

[–] Shialac@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

well, yeah. It's a Bethesda game, of course their storytelling is bland af

[–] Xanthrax@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I know everyone says it, but FUCK they should let Obsidian do the writing, and they need to drop that ancient game engine. Microsoft has probably killed this company.

Fallout: New Vegas had some of their best story telling. The Outer Worlds had awesome lore too. I'm really surprised they didn't bring them along.

[–] EtherealMoon@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Bethesda has put themselves in an awkward spot by promoting niche and deep RPG mechanics for so long, and then becoming such a AAA developer with entire keynotes dedicated to previewing them that they no longer want to risk making deeper complex mechanics because they're scared of "confusing" the base audience.

I want to say they need to take Starfield as a wakeup call, in comparison to games like BG3. But they don't need to, because Gamepass numbers are practically imaginary sales numbers, and we're just going to hear about how well it sold for the next half-decade.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 10 points 1 year ago

Lemon juice makes oranges seem sweet.

[–] Razputinsgirth@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I've been seeing a ton of cyberpunk ads since starfield was released just shitting on starfield and talking up cyberpunk. This seems like a smear campaign. Frankly if your a fan of sci Fi and video games. You should probably try both when they're on sale.

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[–] ShittyRedditWasBetter@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Don't get me wrong, I love starfield, but the creation engine and faux rpg thing they have going is starting to heavily show its age.

[–] charred@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Starfield bad. Cyberpunk good

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