this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2025
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Firefox alternatives comparison - asking for advice/opinion (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) by Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world to c/firefox@lemmy.world
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Meta note : am not sure if this is on topic for this community, please tell me if it is not. I could not find rules, so I assume it's okay, but i'll remove it if its not. (Also, please consider the info given here with precaution, for they are only based on people feedback and media report, not any technical certainty).

So, after the recent Mozilla privacy drama, I saw multiple recommendations of alternative browsers, each one with their pros and cons. I was trying to get a better understanding of which one was good/bad for which reasons, and I thought i might share it here so people with more knowledge can correct my takes.

Here is what I could get so far, based mostly on Lemmy comments and Wikipedia pages. This is aimed at browser that share some of Firefox values (foss, independency, (maybe) privacy, etc), so I excluded Chrome, Edge, and others. I'm open to any feedback/infos/browser suggestions to get a more accurate summary !

Browser FOSS Privacy Features Browser Family [^browserfamily] Platforms Notes
Firefox ✅ ❌ ✅ Firefox WMLAI AI interest
Brave ✅ 🟠[^braveprivacy] ✅ Chromium WMLAI Crypto interest[^bravecrypto], bigot CEO[^braveceo]
Vivaldi 🟠[^vivaldifoss] 🟠[^vivaldiprivacy] ✅ Chromium WMLAI Aims to be a better Opera
Ungoogled Chromium ✅ ✅ ✅ Chromium WMLA Removes Google tracking and specific components
Cromite ✅ ✅ ✅ Chromium WLA Removes most Google tracking and keeps some specific components
DuckDuckGo Browser ❌ ❓[^ddgprivacy] ✅ Chromium/Independent[^ddgfamily] WMAI
Zen Browser ✅ ✅ ✅ Firefox WML
Librewolf ✅ ✅ 🟠[^lwfeatures] Firefox WML [^lwsecurity]
Waterfox ✅ 🟠[^wfprivacy] ✅ Firefox WMLA
Floorp ✅ ✅ ✅ Firefox WML
GNU IceCat ✅ ❓ ✅ Firefox WML Firefox without copyrighted content and with a bit more privacy
Tor Browser ✅ ✅ 🟠[^torfeatures] Firefox WMLA
Mullvad Browser ✅ ✅ ❌[^mullvadfeatures] Firefox WML Made by the Tor team and Mullvad (VPN providers)
IronFox ✅ ✅ ❓ Firefox A
Ladybird ✅ ❓[^lbprivacy] 🟠 Independent ML Very early development stage, bigot devs[^lbdev]
Orion Browser ✅ ✅ ✅ Independent MAI In beta, claims to be top browser in terms of tracker blocking, considers making a Windows version, AI interest[^\orionai]

Notes : Privacy is based on Firefox level, which I considered "bad" for the sake of the comparison. Browser family is the browser on which each is browser is based, mostly Chromium, Firefox or none. I first called it Engine and it was unclear. Features is to identify barebones browsers and how much risk there is to find websites not compatible with those browsers. Question mark is for when there is a debate or I could not find infos. Platforms is for the platforms on which the browser is available. To keep it tight, only one letter per platform : W for Windows, M for macOS, L for GNU/Linux, A for Android, I for iOS.

contributors : Blazing8215@fedia.io, CubitOom@infosec.pub, cabbage@piefed.social, null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com, Mwa@lemm.ee, dojan@lemmy.world, BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world, hal_5700X@sh.itjust.works

[^browserfamily]: most browsers are fork of or rely on another browser. The two main "source" browsers are Chromium and Firefox, resulting here in three main categories : Chromium-based, Firefox-based and Independent. This is sometimes called the engine, though technically the engine is different (engines are Gecko (used by Firefox), Blink (used by Chromium), Webkit (used by Safari and Orion), and also Ladybird and Servo which are in development). [^braveprivacy]: they have a lot of optional data collecting, from their Privacy Policy [^bravecrypto]: from Brave's Wikipedia page. [^braveceo]: from his personal Wikipedia page. [^vivaldifoss]: some parts are open source, but the UI is proprietary [^vivaldiprivacy]: they collect data for statistics, from their Privacy Policy [^ddgprivacy]: they let Microsoft trackers active because of legal bounds due to their use of Bing. They recognized that but now claim that these legal bounds are no more and that they started blocking Microsoft trackers along others. [^ddgfamily]: technically, it seems that DuckDuckGo browser is not a fork from Chromium, but they use the Chromium engine Blink for their Windows and Android edition, and the WebKit engine (used by Safari and most "Independent" labelled browsers) for their macOS and iOS editions, according to the Wikipedia page. [^lwfeatures]: some websites may be blocked due to stricter privacy setups, according to LinuxSecurity's article cited on Wikipedia. [^lwsecurity]: some users seemed to fear that having a small team, Librewolf would be late on security patches, but their FAQ seems to say it's ok. [^wfprivacy]: from Waterfox's Wikipedia page, linking to Exodus report stating that android version of Waterfox uses same trackers as Firefox. [^torfeatures]: some websites might block tor network [^mullvadfeatures]: lemmy users said it is barebones and their FAQ says it has little features by design to prevent fingerprinting. [^lbprivacy]: could not find infos on their website or wikipedia page. Probably not that bad, but since it is in early development, it may evolve in better ways than other. [^lbdev]: from their github, considering gender neutral wording is politics and does not belong in ladybird. [^\orionai]: from the Kagi Wikipedia page and lemmy comments.

Edit 1 : added Vivaldi, Floorp and Ironfox, clarify 'Engine dependency' column, add 'Platforms' column, add bigot warning for ladybird.
Edit 2 : added Mwa@lemm.ee table (Tor, Ungoogled chromium, Cromite) and IceCat, updated info on Vivaldi
Edit 3 : add Orion Browser, corrects lines to group browser together by engine, added users whose infos I used via edits
Edit 4 : corrected Brave and Opera Privacy rating.
Edit 5 : removed Opera since both Privacy and FOSS would be bad. Updated Vivaldi Privacy rating.
Edit 6 : changing Engine category to Browser Family and adding explanation.
Edit 7 : added DuckDuckGo Browser and a warning about the reliability of this summary.
Edit 8 : added link to Orion Browser and corrected Mullvad's family.

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[–] hal_5700X@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

Mullvad Browser is based on Firefox. Due to it's Mullvad's version of Tor.

Godspeed Ladybird. We need a true independent browser.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

It is indeed, my bad! Thanks for pointing it out, I'll edit the table.

[–] MECHAGIC@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is it possible for you add a note on if something has an app for mobile or not? thanks in advance

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I think what you're looking for is the "Platforms" column, check out for the A letter (or I if you use iOS). Beware though, some that are labelled "A" may not be present in the play store or officials app stores, but only available via apk packages, or via F-Droid, so the convenience may vary (I checked quickly, and Firefox/Waterfox/Tor/DDG are on playstore, I think ungoogled-chromium/Chromite/Ironfox might be apk/F-droid only).

If i misunderstood your question, tell me ;)

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 30 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Opera is a terrible idea these days. Vivaldi picked up where Opera got bought up, and it might be the best Chromium based browser at the moment. @Vivaldi@vivaldi.net

I wrote a post here for those seeking engine independence. For those hesitant to stick with Gecko/FireFox forks, WebKit is the best bet right now.

It seems premature to suggest Ladybird when the alpha is set to release next year.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'll add Vivaldi or replace Opera with it, thanks for the info!

Yeah, Ladybird is in very early stage, but it may still be useful in a 'keep an eye on this one' way I think. I should maybe make it clearer.

[–] Blazing8215@fedia.io 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

While Vivaldi isn't open source, but some source available after release, they do avoid the AI and crypto interests in their blog.

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I also find it neat that they run an open Mastodon instance (vivaldi.social) and seem dedicated to the social web in opposition to mainstream social media.

[–] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

You have a bizarre notion of "privacy". Have you read the terms and conditions, and privacy policies of Brave, Opera and Vivaldi? Have you read Firefox's?

Mozilla have also made clear the data licensing terms:

UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so we want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice.

And the term that has been causing such concern:

You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content.

A lot of the posts on social media about this is just noise and overreaction. They're making explicit something that has been implicit for decades and is exactly the same with other browsers (and if anything more murky and opaque)

Edit: and if the concern is the AI chatbot stuff (which is optional) then Brave has the same kind of stuff in its privacy policy alongside a myriad of other commerical uses of your data.

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[–] Blazing8215@fedia.io 19 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Ladybird considers gender neutral pronouns to be a personal political issue that has no place in their project in case that is worth a bigot warning for you.

[–] parmesan@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Thanks for this info, I know it's probably not a factor for most but dismissing the existence of a group of people as "political" is a definite dealbreaker for me.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Thx, info added

[–] flavonol@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

I was under the impression that Ladybird has become independent of the Serenity project, even if they are still related projects.

[–] tatann@lemm.ee 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I've never tried Brave, but given their "ethics" I wouldn't trust its privacy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)

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[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Couple quick corrections:

The Firefox engine is called Gecko, although it is pretty closely associated with Firefox, so not sure it needs to be changed. Mullvad is built on Firefox (Gecko engine). Orion is built on Safari (WebKit engine).

Great list!

Personally, I'm happily sticking with Firefox. It's pretty clear that this legal change is to facilitate new browser features and Firefox (as is their tradition) bungled the rollout and explanation. Browsers are changing and we need Firefox more than ever. It can't really be considered a privacy browser anymore, but that is covered by the forks that depend on Mozilla development.

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[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Ironfox is worth a mention even though it is Android specific.

It's too bad that mull browser is not planning to support an android release according to issue #24

Perhaps it would be good to add a column of which platforms each browser supports?

[–] ijon_the_human@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

Thanks for making the post! I'm sure many will find it helpful.

Myself I'm inclined to trust old school (f)oss projects much more than these new "privacy focused" solutions that seem to have the half life of a fart.

I'll probably stick with a firefox fork for now, there's plenty of them and it allows me to keep all of my addons and configs.

[–] haskman@programming.dev 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Engine independence should really be titled "Not Chromium"

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (3 children)

It was at first x) but then I had another column for firefox based and decided to merge both

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 8 points 2 days ago

Maybe just a column for enigine, listing which engine the browser is using? Seems easier. :)

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 4 points 2 days ago

It might be less confusing to simply list the engines being used. It ruins the check mark aesthetic but I think the info is more important.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 2 points 2 days ago

Why are some Firefox based browsers yellow?

[–] sarcasticsunrise@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Massive big props to OP and everyone who helped compiling this list. I'm not computer illiterate, but a lot of you on here are leaps and bounds more tech savvy than I 😘

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think Floorp is probably worth a mention. Not my thing but some people dig it.

I don't really understand the engine independence column. Why are LibreWolf and WaterFox "Other" instead of "Correct"?

IDK if you're determined to exclude chrome based browsers, but ungoogled-chromium and thorium might be worth consideration. I run both LibreWolf and ungoogled-chromium as daily drivers because some sites I interact with just arent compatible with Gecko (firefox engine).

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[–] dojan@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I've been on LibreWolf for a year. Honestly I've run into very few issues, the biggest being that certain functions require canvas access for some reason, I have a different browser for edge-cases where things don't work and I need to use it.

Anything Chromium based for me goes out the window immediately, because it is still subject to the whims of Google, as Google owns the Chromium project and does whatever they please. I'm not okay with Google owning the web.

There is also Orion, which is currently Mac, iOS/iPad OS only but there's discussions about it coming to Linux and Windows in the future. It's WebKit based, and the development is funded by the Orion and Kagi subscriptions. Kagi does do a bunch of AI bullshit, and started off as some AI BS company so that's perhaps something to keep in mind.

[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 4 points 2 days ago

different browser for edge-cases

Is it Edge?

...

I'll get out...

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Engine Independence is based on the engine used : Chromium is “bad”, Firefox based is “correct” and others are good.

That doesn't make sense. If people leave Firefox for a Firefox fork and eventually Firefox may go down, all its forks are fucked as well. So these browsers don't have Engine Independence.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Yes, it's just to make the difference between Chromium (dependent on already bad dependency) and Firefox based (dependent on maybe bad dependency in the future). I agree that both are technically at the same level of straight up independence which is bad, its just to use the 3-tier notation

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Why would the forks be fucked as well?

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Why would the forks be fucked as well?

Because nobody but Mozilla is developing the actual rendering engine. A fork that only changes a few defaults, the branding, and pre-installs uBlock is not a proper fork that can live on without the originating project developing.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Couldn't they start asking for donations to continue the work?

[–] 001Guy001@lemm.ee 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The issue is, do they have the know-how for developing/maintaining a browser/engine?

If they manage to get ex-Firefox devs on board then they might be fine, but otherwise if they're on their own then that's like asking electricians and painters to build/maintain an entire house. They might not have the knowledge/experience to do so.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 1 points 2 days ago

They should be able to build up the expertise, but I see your point. Hopefully we'll get proper firefox alternatives in the future.

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[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Might also want to include GNU's IceCat

[–] Mwa@lemm.ee 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Imma additionally mention some browsers

Browser FOSS Privacy Engine Independence Features Notes
Tor Browser ✅ ✅️ ❌️ ✅ websites are known to block tor network,Firefox fork
Vivaldi 🟠 [^\notfullylibre] 🟠 [^\bing] ❌️ ✅ A chromium fork
Ungoogled chromium ✅️ ✅️ ❌️ ❓️ A chromium fork,Removes Google tracking and specific components
Cromite ✅️ ✅️ ❌️ ✅️ [^\cromitefeatureset]: A chromium fork,Removes most Google tracking and keeps some specific components

[^\notfullylibre]: The ui of the browser is proprietary: https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/

[^\bing]: Uses bing as default search engine can be changed [^\cromitefeatureset]: Adds some features like userscript and adblocking etc

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[–] atro_city@fedia.io 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You could add links to their donation pages and whether donations go to the browser development or not. Donating to Mozilla for example doesn't mean any of the money will be used on Firefox or even anything related to it.

Edit: it doesn't seem like any browser on that list has a dedicated donation page :O That seems quite sus to me. How do they fund their development? My "if it's free, you're the product" senses are tingling.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

I think Ladybird has donations, and Librewolf and Waterfox are small teams basing most of their works on firefox so they maybe don't need that much ressources.

[–] flavonol@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Ladybird does have a donation page: https://donorbox.org/ladybird; Ablaze (Floorp devs) take GitHub Sponsors.

[–] dirtySourdough@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I haven't seen mention of duckduckgo in this thread or related ones. I use it regularly and I don't have too many issues with it. Anyone aware of concerns with it?

[–] Blazing8215@fedia.io 3 points 1 day ago

I haven't looked into it in ages, but as far as I know it's not available for Linux and it used to have concerns with Microsoft agreement resulting to it allowing all ads affiliated with Microsoft.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Never heard of the browser even though the search engine is my main one across all devices.

I'll try to add it tomorrow if you use it without big issues, mentioning the controversy with microsoft products pointed out in the comments.

[–] Zier@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago

I want LibreWolf with tabs on top!

[–] rheuz@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Is using Firefox w/ a hardened user.js file, like arkenfox, viable for mitigating some of these privacy concerns or are the changes far more fundamentally baked into the browser? My point being, privacy enthusiasts have always been advocating hardening FF over vanilla, so I'm wondering how much has really changed.

[–] Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I'm not a technical person, but from what I can gather, probably nothing has changed. The communication of Firefox around privacy sparks fear that there may be changes in the future, and that's why i was looking at alternatives, but for now firefox is probably as good as it is thought to be.

For anyone with more technical knowledge, feel free to correct me.

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