this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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No such thing. Ask away!

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(page 2) 44 comments
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[–] Kaboom@reddthat.com 3 points 2 days ago

No. Free speech includes all speech, even the unsavory kind. You can have it as an ideal and aim for it, but unless you allow for every spammer and scam artist, it's not free speech.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 points 2 days ago

Well, if you allow everyone to say everything, the one yelling the loudest wins, and the more silent people don't get to speak freely. Also it's going to send hate, violence, doxxing, state secrets etc into the world. Harming other people and limiting their freedom. Or you limit free spech. So either way, there is no such thing as free speech. It contradicts itself.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

[Comment or thread deleted by moderator]

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

No. Free speech tends to mean the most powerful group determines and enforces norms through aggression, harassment, etc. Speech has consequences, and some of those consequences include harms (threats, doxing, stalking, etc.)

Mastodon is one of the freest online speech platforms I've been a part of, and yet also has the most rigorously enforced code of conduct. More people are free to say more things, and feel confident that doing so does not put them in danger.

Before online platforms emerged, the ability to spread a message was dependent on your ability to support it financially and logistically. Anyone can publish a newspaper on any topic, but unless you have a racist millionaire backing you up, your message won't get very far (ahem, Deerborn Independent). Online publishing has been a haven for hate groups.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Depends where u draw the line? Everyone draws the line somewhere different so some people are always going to be unhappy therefore its impossible.

The fediverse has completly sidestepped this issue by giving you the choice of what instance u want to engage with and thus can find one thats draws the line where u would like it drawn.

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Depends on whether you define a “free speech platform” as a platform that doesn’t impose its own constraints on speech, or a platform that enables speech without constraints. Because there are social pressures that also constrain speech, and hate speech can be a tool of those pressures.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 day ago

Hate speech needs to be said in person.

Said a different way, "I says pardon?"

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (13 children)

No. “Hate speech” is an intentionally broad term designed to be abused and weaponized against unpopular speech.

A better approach would be more specific. No racist speech. No homophobic speech. No misogynistic speech. Etc. Leaving it open ended and subjective is setting up for failure.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Completely and utterly false.

Every single western country outside of America has hate speech laws without issue.

A) they are not that open ended and subjective

B) the idea that laws can't be open ended, subjective, or governed through intent and spirit of the law, is only the case in the dumbass American legal system that has been intentionally ruined by simple minded Republicans, which insist on every edge case being explicitly covered by a law or legislation because they know that makes it impossible to effectively write laws or govern.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You get crazy things in other countries though, like truth not being a defense for libel\slander.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In which countries is that the case?

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

The UK is the weird outlier but there is still a defense of truth in the UK. The difference is that the person accusing you of defamation doesn't have to prove that you're wrong and you do have to prove that you're right.

[–] remon@ani.social 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Every single western country outside of America has hate speech laws without issue.

So does the US. Just not for ordinary people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_government_officials_of_the_United_States

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Those would not be considered hate speech laws in other countries, just normal no-uttering-threats laws. Hate Speech laws typically protect against inciting hatred or violence against an identifiable group, actually uttering threats is typically a different broader law.

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Love the timing making it so easy to disprove your argument. Just look at the flood of European countries abusing broad and ambiguous hate speech laws to crush dissent and crack down on criticism of Israel.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You're talking about the one instance of Germany ruling that a single controversial slogan was hate speech?

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

These are mostly incidents of people publicly expressing support for Hamas, and being arrested for expressing support for a designated terrorist organization, and pretty much all confined to the UK, which has some of the weakest individual protections in the EU / western world.

They also don't have Nazi parades down their streets in 2024.

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Ah, you're so terminally online that you brand anyone who mildly disagrees with you a 'bot'.

Tho fair point about the EDL.

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago

No, not at all.

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