Brave fucks with crypto. Never fuck with crypto. It's also Chromium, which means they're complicit in Google's efforts to DRM the internet.
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
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I'm pro digial cash / Monero ... but it doesn't belong in a web browser. Super sketchy shit they are doing with BAT, which means they are tracking you.
I legitimately would be fine with automatically paying authors. It's not like I enjoy pay walls, ads, or AI garbage writing.
But yeah that's a job for existing crypto and a Firefox extension. Nothing about this needed a separate money supply or browser.
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The complicit part is the most bullshit thing I have ever heard.
They said unequivocally that they won't support it, just like they didn't support Manifest V3.
It still is more browser share for Chromium. Business owners will see that share and use it as part of the business case in implementing WEI. If you want it stopped, you gotta use a real alternative such as Firefox.
Yeah, but op asks why people are anti brave not pro Firefox
Because it is still Chromium... With crypto BS
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Crypto isn't mandatory in brave, I use it for it's built-in ad block and they say they won't implement Google's DRM, also blockchain based since is nice
I'm aware, but it's still supported, and that's enough for me to vomit over a garbage product.
They say they won't implement Google's DRM but words alone do not matter. If they continue to use Chromium, they'll be forced to adopt that and manifest v3.
They would have to put more work into their fork, but they aren’t forced.
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See https://www.spacebar.news/p/stop-using-brave-browser
The TL;DR is that while the browser is technically fine, the people that own it are really fishy and are always trying to turn a profit, whether it be pushing crypto or discussing having their own ad network. They also use Chromium which means Google can slowly push things into it. You should use Firefox with Ublock Origin and tune the browser settings for privacy. There are also forks of Firefox tuned for privacy but I don't think most people need it.
Firefox also cares about profit (the Mozilla Corporation makes Firefox and is a for-profit entity), that’s why they take that money from Google, try to get people to pay for email aliases and VPN, etc. If Brave maintains a chromium fork, they do not have to deal with “Google slowly pushing things into it” other than removing those things.
Firefox also cares about profit (the Mozilla Corporation makes Firefox and is a for-profit entity), that’s why they take that money from Google, try to get people to pay for email aliases and VPN, etc.
That does seem a lot better to me than crypto and ad networks.
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Say no to chromium. Use Firefox and its forks. Even Safari (webkit) maybe a better choice to support a healthy web environment.
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Say no to crypto. I hope I don't need to explain this one. If you have to use Chromium browsers for whatever reasons, use Vivaldi.
I think it's better to phrase the crypto part differently. Because crypto is a great tool for privacy, while Brave's crypto crap is just annoying.
since we're on the FOSS community, I'd recommend using Ungoogled Chromium since Vivaldi isn't fully open source.
Ungoogled Chromium is a great choice. I just hope it can auto update itself. 😅
Also I once encountered an anti-virus programme miscategorize Ungoogled Chromium as malware. It can be annoying for those uninitiated.
The company is run by Brendan Eich who is a hateful POS who spent millions trying to strip people of their human rights, the browser is a chrome reskin contributing to Google's domination of the web, it crams crypto bullshit in your face, and they’re now testing out AI features to add to it.
They also automatically inserted affiliate links into your browser bar/ search results until it was discovered and the response was a nipple-touching 'sorry'.
Only found this article on binance on the quick but iirc it affected a couple other pages as well.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-affiliate-links-crypto-privacy-ceo-apology
Google sure is. Brave is a chromium-based browser - a browser that is built off of Google Chrome, so anything Google wants to put in their web browser to track you and devour your internet-soul is also in Brave and all the other “web browsers” that are just chromium skins like Edge.
Just because Brave forks of Chromium, that doesn't mean they have to accept every change Google does and they can also do their own changes (ex: not supporting Manifest V3).
At least they are financially independent from Google, which you can't say about Firefox.
At least they are financially independent from Google, which you can’t say about Firefox.
I absolutely love it when people bring this up.
It's always funny, mostly because Google is, let's see... A member of the GNOME Advisory Board, a financial supporter of the GNOME Foundation (scroll to the bottom to see their supporters), a supporting member of the KDE e.V., a Gold member of the Linux Foundation, and a major contributor to the Linux Kernel (you'll see some other companies you absolutely hate in that list as well).
Almost nothing in the major open source space is untouched by Google. But sure, Firefox in particular is evil because "Google money".
If you don't want to use something with financial support from Google, feel free to run FreeBSD and browse the web with, I don't know, Lynx or something. ~~Or Apple devices with Safari only. That's a pretty good option, actually, provided you like proprietary software and a super locked down system (except WebKit which is open source and I honestly believe more browsers should be based on it).~~ Lol, edit: Google pays more to Apple than Mozilla to be default on Safari, so nevermind that.
Apple devices with Safari only.
Google pays Apple over 30 times what they pay Mozilla ($15 billion vs $450 million - both annually in 2021) to make the Google search engine the default in their browser.
Ooh, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing!
That's actually quite the sum, but I guess considering Safari's reach, it makes sense.
I just think it's stupid people are always crying that Chromium forks are "controlled by Google" when they can do whatever they want with the fork.
I'm not saying that Firefox is bad because they take Google's money.
I just think that if you consider that, they are more dependent on Google than Brave is.
And since one of the main complaints of people is that they want to turn away from Google stuff, that should be taken into consideration.
I just think that if you consider that, they are more dependent on Google than Brave is.
I think we're defining "dependent" in two different ways here. There's financial reliance (which applies to far more than Firefox when it comes to major FOSS projects) and software reliance. I don't particularly think either is better or worse, but there are significant differences in the result of either.
Financial contribution in exchange for defaulting to a specific search engine is very different from using a Google-led project as the base foundation of your software.
Unless Brave actually hard forks Blink/Chromium, they're literally depending on Google's work for the entire base of their flagship software.
They can choose not to implement certain features, but without Google, their browser as it currently is wouldn't exist. Theoretically (this is highly unlikely, but just as an experiment) if Google were to somehow move to a closed source model for future versions or ditch all work on Blink, Brave would very likely die.
If they wanted to keep it alive, they'd have to fork the last open source version of Chromium, maintain it alongside everything else, and still push out something secure that adheres to web standards. None of which is easy and requires a lot of work.
Financially, yeah. Firefox has more reliance on Google than Brave. So do GNOME, KDE, and the Linux Foundation.
When it comes to their software, Brave is far more reliant on Google than Firefox could ever be.
~~The only major browser not reliant on Google at all is Safari.~~ (Edit: ignore this; Google pays Apple a shit ton to be default on Safari as well.)
Despite my dislike of web monopoly, I don't particularly care what browser people use, provided they're being honest about it.
I don't like Google. I don't trust them. But it would be incredibly shortsighted to dismiss their contributions (financial or otherwise) to open source. Whether people like it or not, without them, we wouldn't have a lot of shit we take for granted.
If people want to "get away from using Google stuff", they might as well just ditch tech altogether. Google's fingers are in just about every big FOSS cookie jar, whether financially or via software contribution.
Think about it this way. Brave needs Google. Google doesn't need Brave. At all. Mozilla needs funding from Google. Google doesn't need funding from Mozilla. Google requires very little of either of them, but they both rely on it for different reasons. One approach isn't worse than the other, but the effects are very, very different.
I'm with you up until the use of all of this to discourage getting away from Google stuff. Just because Google is also involved in open source doesn't mean that their other projects become more trustworthy, or that the safety of those open source projects should automatically come into question.
If Google pulls out of Gnome, it'd affect Gnome but it wouldn't obliterate it. Likewise, somebody would probably take over some form of a hard fork of Chromium. But if Google drops support on something you've made an essential part of your workflow, you're in trouble.
The point of getting away from Google as much as possible isn't to exist in a world without Google, it's to avoid having a single point of failure and to avoid putting literally all your data into the hands of a company that will use it however they can to profit. Half my duck duck go searches get a !g at the front, and Firefox or no, I'm still on an android phone, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to hand them all my notes for work that isn't finished yet so they can regurgitate its component parts. Train on my stuff all you want, but at least let me finish it first.
Google right now is like a bad relationship. It's gotten completely wrapped up in our way of life to the point that it's overly comfortable doing a half-assed or self-serving job and knowing most people won't bother to shake things up looking for something better.
It's probably best if we all get a little space from megacorps like Google, even if we don't abandon the relationship entirely.
I actually agree with you entirely. I was just trying to play a bit of Devil's advocate with admittedly some exaggeration on my part. I would much prefer keeping our cookies free of their sticky fingers and we can all still do our best to minimize their influence.
They have their reasons for funding and contribution, but it's often than only in their interest to do it, rather than being "good to the community". Their Linux kernel contributions, for example, often end up predominantly being for things that affect Android.
I do my best to minimize the amount of Google stuff I do/use as well. It's just that I often find the Firefox-Google talking point to be missing the bigger picture and it's not as simple as "Google gives money to Mozilla, therefore Firefox = inherently bad for taking their money ".
The irony of all of this is that I was typing my previous comments on Brave on Android due to my constant browser hopping. Mull is my default, but sometimes I just go with Brave or Vivaldi for random shit (Firefox mobile is really bad for live streaming video compared to most Chromium browsers, in my experience, but it might just be my set up or something).
It's also about avoiding full control over web standards being given to Google.
Completely agreed that a fork of an open source product shouldn't be hated purely because* it's Google code.
If Google pay the best search price that funds browser development, why not? Firefox aren't in the search market. They could easily go bing or yahoo like they used previously, but more income means more money away for building modern web browsers which are millions of lines of code.
Brave don't need to do that because Google codes their browser for them.
I was a brave user and just got sick of the gimmicks.
I've been on permanent team firefox now on all my devices 😁
they sent me notifications that were ads
To be fair, they're opt-in. They won't show if you don't use the BAT wallet.
I didn't opt in and I never used the BAT wallet.
I am a very, very long time Firefox user. Brave probably has a case for getting Chrome users to consider switching, but I've never encountered any compelling reason to consider switching from Firefox to Brave.
I've had a ton of websites break when using Firefox with uBlock Origin, I've never had a broken website with Brave.
If a site breaks because you're using ff, the web developer behind it is clearly a fucking idiot. If it works in chrome it's going to work in FF, unless you've done something extraordinarily stupid.
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Brave has a crypto token and that turns Alot of people off of brave. They also heavily encourage people to use custodial exchanges which turns some crypto people. They have also have added their affiliate links on cert pages when users would visit and they had nasty bug in their sync which mixed up user data. Otherwise Brave removes Alot of the bad parts of chrome and brave search is pretty solid. The privacy alternative is Firefox or librewolf. If you need chromium for whatever reason brave or ungoogled chromium
If google is dominant enough, everyone needs to follow. Or get left behind.
I think the main problem that remains is that all those chromium derivatives strengthen googles position as the de facto standard. It is not only about chromium, but also web developments outside of that browser, like DRM, SEO, AMP etc. Websites might adapt or tailor towards that browser or google created standards/tech. And thus, everyone (including Brave and all other, including firefox) needs to follow. Or get left behind.
If Brave, and all other chromium derivatives, don't agree with the direction chromium takes, can't they remove that code? Every deviation from chromium is going to cost resources, so they have to pick their fights. And if google/chromium is dominant enough, you will have to compromise on how much you can deviate. Brave needs to follow chromium or get incompatible.
Using Brave strengthens chromiums position as the de facto standard. And Google getting more dominant.
Because we need more than one browser engine in the world, or Google will own the internet.
Super satisfied Vivaldi user, checking in. Chromium based and removes a lot of the Google. Custom settings are a power users dream.
Yea, Vivaldi is my first choice when something chromium-based is needed.
I find myself switching between Brave and Firefox. The anti-Brave crowd is mostly dissatisfied with the Brave ownership and the crypto/ad features. I myself don't have a problem with either. The crypto and ad features can simply be disabled. If you like Brave and it does what you want then you should use it
A large part is also that it's Chromium based. I agree about the features, the first thing I do with Firefox is go around and disable all the random stuff they've added (eg: pocket)
A large part is also that it's Chromium based.
Ah right, I forgot about that. It's a valid argument.
Reading comments here and in different anti brave posts I think it's a mix of anti chrome sentiments and pineapple pizza type hate train with a sprinkle of politics because brave owner sens to have right wing beliefs
It's fille to the top with crypto garbage and just like Firefox build in tracker blocker Brave prioretizes website functionality over privacy so certain trackers aren't blocked and you are better off with UBlock Origin anyway, I use and vouch for Librewolf!
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