something something 15 competing standards
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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unfortunately matrix sucks revolt isn’t federated and irc is outdated so
I just learned about Matrix recently. Seems like something that'd be good. What sucks about it?
Besides the main implementation synapse being slow, the new implementation dendrite is unfinished but progressing.
But technical standards aside, the hassle of managing encryption keys is too buggy and confusing IMO. That'll deter most people I feel.
I want it to be great but it just isn't there yet.
I personally really like Matrix, but there are a few outstanding complaints about it. The biggest one is that the reference implementation everyone uses by default is known to be bloated and slow, and poor at scaling. Server admins have had a huge challenge of supporting a large amount of data for things like room history, which in the past required propagation to every server hosting every participant. The protocol itself has been described by some developers as overtly complex.
Some of this seems to be improving, particularly with development of a Go-based backend implementation, Dendrite.
And if dendrite fail, we wait for the rust-based backend implementation. :)
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IRC is only "outdated" if you make it so by using outdated networks like libera.chat that refuse to implement the newer standards that have been available for years.
For some weird reason many people just plain ignore the existance of XMPP when they're discussing decentralized protocols. Is it because Matrix outshadowed it?
There is this wierd meme that IRC is "outdated" and XMPP is "dead", both of which is completely untrue, but somehow the tech-bro hivemind continues to spout this nonsense when ever the topic comes up.
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Feels like Jabber has been around for a long time. If I'm not mistaken I remember my buddy pimping it as an AIM alternative back in the Napster/mp3 days.
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Matrix is getting better on fast peace, we need to give it another yew years to fix biggest holes I guess.
ActivityPub based chat is going to suck much. Like basing chat on RSS or FTP, it can be done but why. Unless we're talking just about replicating Instagram-like DMs then maybeee? But I still would like to just add link to Matrix in bio instead of having chat in yet another place.
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Oh boy... Another messenger... Yay...
Nobody is telling you to use it. This originally spun out of development of a messaging app just for Pixelfed, but evolved when the dev realized it could be made to work with any Fediverse account, not just his own server project.
An optimistic view is that it could end up opening the door for end-to-end encryption to come to private messages in Fediverse servers, over time.
I think what @deadsuperhero@lemmy.ml is trying to explain is that Mastodon and Lemmy for example may be able to implement Sup as a part of their softwares too. Currently if you try to DM someone on Lemmy, the options are a Matrix redirect, or Private Messages designated as not secured.
Though I do wonder about the viability of this. People would still need to set up with Sup to receive messages, at least as I understand it. As a result, this would run into a similar problem as matrix, just without needing to use a different federated server and login I suppose.
This would also require that project leads for AP softwares would want to accept the service as a part of their distribution, assuming it even is implmented in such a manner.
TL;DR it's hard to say anything for certain when details seem to be slim.
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With the open nature of the fediverse I actually see some potential here. Right now there isn’t a single messenger that I truly like. They’re all just different shades of okay or worse.
What's wrong with Signal?
Mobile-first, requires phone number, proprietary server-side, google play market.
Desktop app works fine tbh.
Phone numbers required for now. Usernames potentially on the horizon per sms removal update.
Server side code is open source and available at Signal Server Github.
Also available on iOS. Android has an apk download so you dont need Google Play.
Seems you edited your comment to add new points. Lemmy doesn't notify users about changes to comments/posts they replied to, unfortunately.
Phone numbers required for now. Usernames potentially on the horizon per sms removal update.
Good to know. I prefer to never use my phone number for sign ups.
Server side code is open source and available at Signal Server Github.
They seem to put a lot of effort to centralize their app though - you can't setup your own server and talk to other signal users.
Android has an apk download so you dont need Google Play.
Yes, but you need to figure out how to verify signature keys on android + manual updates, it's just inconvinent if you compare it to F-Droid Signal devs so dislike for no good reason.
You still need to install a mobile app first. On XMPP I can create an account even if I don't own a smartphone.
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Signal is great, but the core developer is inherently against federation with his own product. It's just one giant centralized service.
It feels like I'm doing shady backdoor deals. It's only for the people I conspire with and really close friends...
In which we just end up using regular old sms anyway lol.
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I wonder how it'll compare to Matrix.
I think it's intended to be more like WhatsApp, in the sense that you use it for one-on-one chats or messaging small friend groups. I don't think it's a current goal to try to take on Matrix / Element.
use it for one-on-one chats or messaging small friend groups
Those are exactly what I use Matrix for.
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I'm for it, plus I like the name.
What's Sup?
Nothing much, you?
No, what's, Sup?
... Just chillen...
Visible anger.
’Who's on first’ vibes :-)
Kinda shows how what's up has evolved over the years
What's up - WhatsApp sup - Sup
The name makes me think of the Bro app from Silicon Valley
I'm excited for it. I'm hoping it becomes a federated, self-hostable Signal.
It's way easier to sell friends and family on yet another messager when you tell them "look, it comes with a twitter/facebook/instagram/reddit too!"
Do we if it will have scope to do group chats at all or well?
Seems to me that private group chats are significant piece missing from the fedi, especially as they seem to me to be a reasonable alternative platform structure compared to all the doom scrolling engagement stuff that the Fedi has so far more or less sought to simply clone.
Groups support seems to be coming to pixelfed soon at least
I'm much more excited about Veilid than another server-based thing, even if it's federated servers. Fully peer-to-peer seems like the way to go for direct conversations.
I'm pretty curious about Veilid, and eager to check it out. But, I believe that peer-to-peer and federated could theoretically complement each other very well, especially when it comes to building infrastructure for this big weird network we're a part of.
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Actually, for now @dansup@mastodon.social is working on an activityPub library called #pubkit https://pubkit.net
He's working on multiple things at once. Where he finds the energy, I don't know, but PubKit, Sup, and a few other things are all happening right now.
This one article is part of a series where I'm hoping to put up one feature per day of what he's been working on. Pixelfed is notoriously hard to cover, because the lead dev is so active.
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