No Stupid Questions

1. Are you AI/bot?
2. Wall of text = incomprehensible, would not read/5.
3. It's rarely about how good the devices are, but how much they cost + Apple's two-faced moral model that makes people oppose/reject it.

I think you should talk to your friends about this, not us.

They know why they (appear to) judge you better than any of us can infer from reading your side of the story.

But to answer your question as written: Yes, I am very familiar with their hardware and products. The hardware is good. The products are coherent. The company is dishonest, monopolistic and anti-consumer. I value my consumer freedom higher.

My ADHD only allowed me to read the first two sentences.

Paragraphs.

Paragraphs?

Paragraphs!

1. Stop caring about what other people think about Apple.

2. Start using paragraphs.

3. Learn how to express your thoughts in a short and clear manner.

I'm not reading that whole post, but in answer to the title. I use an android for my personal phone and an iPhone for my work phone. I've used both side by side for more than the last 10 years. Without a doubt the android phone is more functional and easier to use. I don't give a shit about cameras, messaging apps, or brand loyalty. The android is more affordable and allows me to send texts, surf the internet, and watch YouTube without adds through vanced. I would never consider getting an iPhone as my personal use phone.

If you like Apple and Mac, go ahead, use whatever you like. I think the hate comes from the hype attitude apple users typically have. They are a bit too hardcore about it and it gets annoying. I know, some bad apples spoil the lot (pun?) and I'm sure there's Apple lovers who don't go around preaching or trying to convert anyone. My sister loves her iPhone, yet I never heard her recommend me get one, or even brag about it.

Now you will have to understand different people value different things. For me, if you can't sideload apps, if it's too hard to jailbreak, if it's too expensive, if I can't run the niche software I need to run- I'm not going to bother. For these reasons I'm not an apple customer.

Finally, no, no haven't used any Apple products lately. I think the last time I did was a Mac at uni some 5 years ago, and I've always found the interface counterintuitive. The mouse design is very uncomfortable. I don't like their keyboards. Perhaps these things changed or maybe we have compatibility, but again, adding to the reasons in paragraph 2- I don't see why I should bother.

I use an iPad for work. It's getting better now that they have widgets and allow a little customization. I hate the app store and the keyboard (even with gbosrd installed it's still clunky), and almost everything about using it. That said, it starts quickly, has good battery life, and is durable. Good device, terrible os. Android feels like the opposite - less reliable (more restarts) but much more pleasant to use. I haven't used an apple computer in a hundred years but i dint remember it being bad. My kids use macs for design stuff at home and work and love them. As someone else mentioned, i think it's ios that is hated.

I haven't tried nor will I want to try Apple products for the following reasons:

Apple products seem to always have some critical design flaw under the surface, or even something I can only put down to deliberate malicious designed-to-fail, not-repairable shenanigans (soldered SSD, serializing even trivial parts like screen opening sensor, having high voltage backlight pin right next to low voltage signaling pin that connects directly to the soldered CPU etc).

The software is extremely locked down, I simply cannot function without Fdroid and installing packages straight from Github (how else am I going to extract the necessary encryption keys to use a gadget with an unofficial FLOSS application instead of the official spyware?). Android is not perfect, but at least I can hack it and mutilate it as I see fit and there are custom ROM-s. My next phone will probably run /e/ OS.

Plus Apple lacks the critical-to-me hardware like 3.5mm analog audio output. IR blaster is also nice to have when working with AV stuff that may not have the remote with them.

Last, but not least, they're simply too expensive for me. I'm not willing to pay more than 300...400€ for a phone, and I don't want to buy a mobile gadget used—demons only know what that thing has been through. And Apple desktop/laptop computers—yeah, well, just no. I like my standardized x64 architecture, where I can upgrade RAM and storage as I see fit for cheap and install whatever opsys I want, just fine thankyouverymuch.

They were enraged on how i “betrayed” them by switching to iPhone.

Your friends need to chill the fuck out.

I've used Apple devices for work in the past (phone and laptop) although not for about 7 or 8 years and they were fine - bit of a learning curve as I have always been a Windows and Android person, but I got used to them, and those aspects of them that I found ideosyncratic (or just plain dumb!)

That said, it'd take a pretty big shift for me to want to go back to Apple by choice, but that's partly because of cost and the sheer number of apps I'd have to buy to replace those I have.

But, if you want to go with Apple, it's your call, and your friends should not be taking it so seriously.

Also cool thing about the iPhone. Bottom right of the keyboard there’s a button labeled “return”. Push it twice to start a new paragraph.

Brands are nowadays another way to communicate social status. Apple is the peak of conspicuous consumption hence the negative associations for some. Furthermore, Apple devices, although great for what they do, they come with numerous caveats. You’re limited on how much you can do with them. Great if you’re a newbie, not so great if you know your way round a computer and like for things to work your way. Their customer support used to be top notch but now it’s just an other outlet to force you into another expense. Over the past few years they’ve behaved very much against the interest of the consumer. So that didn’t help their public image among those who care about stuff like this. That is not to say their products are good. On the contrary, they’re great. Polished and generally, reliable. Until they’re not. Whatever you’re friend’s opinion know that it’s mostly based on their sense of identity and values.

My ex's dad worked for someone that would get a new phone for each member of his family yearly and then would give his old phones to his employees. I ended up receiving year-old iPhones until 2020.

My local library had an iMac lab. I spend countless hours doing my work and hanging out there, all using iMacs. Eventually, I also bought an Apple Intel laptop with the awful butterfly keyboard, only to sell it a couple of months afterwards.

So I have tried Apple hardware. Up until 2020 it was the only smartphone hardware I ever used. It was the computer hardware I used for the vast majority of my middle and highschool years (heck, even in college there's an iMac lab that I spent quite some time in).

I spent most of my life using Apple hardware with Apple software and when I switched to repairable hardware and libre software exclusively, my life improved.

I'm pro Mac OS. Anti iOS.

My main metric is can I run software on the device of my choosing. On iOS you cannot run your own software, there's no f droid. That's a deal breaker for me. So I don't recommend it..

On Mac OS you can run whatever you want. And that's fine.

It's ultimately up to you, I don't like seeing advertisements, I like to run my own software.

I'll consider an iPhone when they get rid of the giant notch and allow sideloading and more browser engines.

I use apple products as main devices since I was 16 and bought my first Mac, I’m not a fan girl, these are all shitty companies so Android/Google, Apple or Windows for me it’s the same but I have to say that the way iOS works is super intuitive to me, it’s like my brain works the same way (obviously there’s some stupid stuff like the way Settings are arranged) and I have also Android devices form various brands but I wouldn’t change my iphone/mac even if I have to buy everything refurbished because the cost is prohibitive!

The keyboard is ok, I registered many abbreviations so writing is very simple; Safari works fine and you can install adblockers, or if you want you can download another browser, just without extensions;

If you are a geek and privacy focused I agree that a de-googled Android is the best but for the average joe an iphone works well

I dont really care. But isn't Apple getting worse and worse by deliberately making it impossible to repair or service their products?

People has often a natural need to play teams. I would have serious discussion with your friends about it. Because there is a limit when friendly ribbing turns not friendly. And that doesn’t sound healthy friendship.

iPhone is great for some people and Android is great for some people. I am happy you found what works for you.

But I have to ask what are you using for syncthing? Last time I tried it it was really sub par compared to my android.

Most of the things I use my phone for don't work on iPhones. They work just fine if you want the limited apps that they have available. I've found that making custom automation is not even a thing with Apple. You can't side load apps, so you're limited to just what they offer inside their store.

iPhones are for people who aren't really into tech and just want something very basic that works.

First, you really shouldn't let your friends tell you what to buy or not buy. Advise yes, but nothing more.

Personally, there's a lot about the Apple ecosystem I just don't like. I have no doubt whatsoever that their products are probably great and work together well. But their pricing and the way they treat users when it comes to repairs are the main problems I have with them.

I think it's just better to use what works best for you.

They've become a lot better in the past fifteen years in terms of usability and respect for their users, but the price point is still out of whack. They sell style as much as function... sometimes to the detriment of function.

I tend to find that for every complaint there’s at least 10 more people out there using their Apple devices quite happily.

Use what you want or that works best for you at the end of the day.

I made the switch to iPhone after my nexus 5 had a system crash when I tried to toggle the WiFi off/on. Haven’t really looked back since.

As someone who actively avoids Apple products I do not have any issue with their hardware or software and actually recommend apple to people like my mom who need things that just work and work well. The reasons though that I personally avoid Apple is I disagree with many of their anti consumer practices, their "walled garden" mentality, and their blatant refusal to make things more repairable. On that note you mention HP and I avoid them as well for the same reasons. HP, Dell, and other big name manufacturers of Windows laptops and PCs use the same tactics as apple. I personally built my own desktop and bought a second hand laptop that I replaced some parts in and put Linux on so it runs much better now but these are things I can't recommend to people like my mother.

As for phones it is the same story as above but sadly virtually all options when it comes to manufacturers are anti consumer so the main thing that keeps me on Android is the ability to install apps from other places.

I think people take the anti apple train a bit too hard sometimes because they are easier to s**t on than having to name 20 different windows manufacturers or Android ones.

Side note many software engineers I know swear by MacBooks because their underlying kernal is more similar to unix and also the whole "it just works" part is huge when your company is buying you the machine and can't really fuck up by buying any 1 of the maybe 6 choices they had through apple

I just don't like how you get around in an iphone. Admittedly, I haven't used Macs in a very long time, so maybe they're pretty good nowadays (I still hear you can't upgrade them at all tho, sooo...maybe not?), but most of it comes down to me feeling lost navigating the thing.

The other thing is how expensive Apple Products are in comparison to the competition, and the walled garden thing they got going on. Androids are just easier to move around in, cheaper, and give me more control over my device. That's the other big thing that steers me away from iphones: I pay more for a "premium" product and get a lack of control over it.

On android: If I wanna not use the Play Store, I can ignore it and use something else, if I don't like the stock apps, i can look for replacements that do suit my tastes (tbf, I can do this on Apple too, but there isn't much by comparison), if I wanna install a custom ROM, I can install it, if I wanna root the thing and sideline apps while I'm at it, I can, if I want to brick my phone...I'm an idiot, but I have that option. I can do none of that, or do some of it in a limited way, on an iphone.

Pretty much, I don't like how unintuitive the UI is, how restricting the system feels to me, and the company's overall anti consumer stance

I personally am not the biggest apple fan but I find it downright disturbing how your "friends" are so adamant about this. My own dislike stems from overinflated prices, working conditions in the electronics sector in general and apple in particular (I have a fairphone and a headache about tablet use...) and waaaaaaay back I had an iPad that wasn't compatible with a windows/linux machine.

Doesn't mean apple doesn't have their good points, you are most firmly entitled to decide yourself what you spend money on and anything else wouldn't be decent behaviour in my opinion. Let alone how I'd treat my friends. Stating an opinion is nice and healthy, what they do... Not so much.

No. To me, Apple is like Nazis. They look good but are bad. The end.