This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
All this.. all this multi billion dollar development, all those 'brains', all the time and space a tech company occupies in it's lifetime... just to force you to watch ads?
What a shitty society and what a shitty communication system we have, just because some morons want to earn some billions more...
There is no endgame when it comes to greed, those pricks will always want more.
I feel it's worse than this. Imagine being the brightest mind in college, have a ton of experience, just to invent new algorithms to get people to click on more ads.
I consider it close to going to school for engineering or design and winding up being the guy in charge of making airplane seats ever smaller and more uncomfortable.
Yeah, the brightest minds of recent generations are figuring out how to get people to watch ads. We probably could have had fusion energy by now, but instead have ads.
But think of the investors! How can we give them month-after-month gains without forcing ad's down our user's throats? /s
Multiple billionaires have answerd the question, "when is it enough?" With the reply: "when I own everything."
We should treat these cocksuckers like addicts and start looking at reform and rehabilitation! Think of the children!
Long ago, we praised Chrome for helping destroy Internet Explorer. Now it has become the same. No for-profit corporation is your friend.
Mozilla really did that with Firefox and Thunderbird to help kill IE and Outlook Express. Chrome came quite a bit later, but was instrumental in bringing about a performance reckoning, and a push for universal standards, sort of creating that movement. Really shocking now when you think of Google doing that.
I never praised for Chrome destroying IE. I praised Chrome for standardizing many of the web protocols, which inevitably made it easier to switch between web and mobile.
Write to your country’s anti-trust body if you feel Google is unilaterally going after the open web with WEI (content below taken from HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880390).
US:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/report-antitrust-violation antitrust@ftc.govEU:
https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.euUK:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition… general.enquiries@cma.gov.ukIndia:
https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/ https://www.cci.gov.in/filing/atdExample email:
Google has proposed a new Web Environment Integrity standard, outlined here: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/blob/main/explainer.md This standard would allow Google applications to block users who are not using Google products like Chrome or Android, and encourages other web developers to do the same, with the goal of eliminating ad blockers and competing web browsers. Google has already begun implementing this in their browser here: https://github.com/chromium/chromium/commit/6f47a22906b2899412e79a2727355efa9cc8f5bd Basic facts: Google is a developer of popular websites such as google.com and youtube.com (currently the two most popular websites in the world according to SimilarWeb) Google is the developer of the most popular browser in the world, Chrome, with around 65% of market share. Most other popular browsers are based on Chromium, also developed primarily by Google. Google is the developer of the most popular mobile operating system in the world, Android, with around 70% of market share. Currently, Google’s websites can be viewed on any web-standards-compliant browser on a device made by any manufacturer. This WEI proposal would allow Google websites to reject users that are not running a Google-approved browser on a Google-approved device. For example, Google could require that Youtube or Google Search can only be viewed using an official Android app or the Chrome browser, thereby noncompetitively locking consumers into using Google products while providing no benefit to those consumers. Google is also primarily an ad company, with the majority of its revenue coming from ads. Google’s business model is challenged by browsers that do not show ads the way Google intends. This proposal would encourage any web developer using Google’s ad services to reject users that are not running a verified Google-approved version of Chrome, to ensure ads are viewed the way the advertiser wishes. This is not a hypothetical hidden agenda, it is explicitly stated in the proposal: “Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots. This creates a need for human users to prove to websites that they’re human, sometimes through tasks like challenges or logins.” The proposed solution here is to allow web developers to reject any user that cannot prove they have viewed Google-served ads with their own human eyes. It is essential to combat this proposal now, while it is still in an early stage. Once this is rolled out into Chrome and deployed around the world, it will be extremely difficult to rollback. It may be impossible to prevent this proposal if Google is allowed to continue owning the entire stack of website, browser, operating system, and hardware. Thank you for your consideration of this important issue.
Thanks! Here's the message without all the BBC quotes to make it easier to copy for app users:
Dear FTC,
Google has proposed a new Web Environment Integrity standard, outlined here: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/…
This standard would allow Google applications to block users who are not using Google products like Chrome or Android, and encourages other web developers to do the same, with the goal of eliminating ad blockers and competing web browsers.
Google has already begun implementing this in their browser here: https://github.com/chromium/chromium/commit/6f47a22906b28994…
Basic facts:
Google is a developer of popular websites such as google.com and youtube.com (currently the two most popular websites in the world according to SimilarWeb) Google is the developer of the most popular browser in the world, Chrome, with around 65% of market share. Most other popular browsers are based on Chromium, also developed primarily by Google. Google is the developer of the most popular mobile operating system in the world, Android, with around 70% of market share.
Currently, Google’s websites can be viewed on any web-standards-compliant browser on a device made by any manufacturer. This WEI proposal would allow Google websites to reject users that are not running a Google-approved browser on a Google-approved device. For example, Google could require that Youtube or Google Search can only be viewed using an official Android app or the Chrome browser, thereby noncompetitively locking consumers into using Google products while providing no benefit to those consumers.
Google is also primarily an ad company, with the majority of its revenue coming from ads. Google’s business model is challenged by browsers that do not show ads the way Google intends. This proposal would encourage any web developer using Google’s ad services to reject users that are not running a verified Google-approved version of Chrome, to ensure ads are viewed the way the advertiser wishes. This is not a hypothetical hidden agenda, it is explicitly stated in the proposal:
“Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots. This creates a need for human users to prove to websites that they’re human, sometimes through tasks like challenges or logins.”
The proposed solution here is to allow web developers to reject any user that cannot prove they have viewed Google-served ads with their own human eyes.
It is essential to combat this proposal now, while it is still in an early stage. Once this is rolled out into Chrome and deployed around the world, it will be extremely difficult to rollback. It may be impossible to prevent this proposal if Google is allowed to continue owning the entire stack of website, browser, operating system, and hardware.
Thank you for your consideration of this important issue.
How is this not anti competitive behaviour?
because the us govt doesn't give a shit about monopolies.
EU might get up in their shit though.
I sure hope so.
This is way worse than what Microsoft did back in the day with Internet Explorer. They were forced to build a browser selection popup into their operating system because of that.
It is. Anyone who cares is powerless to change it. Anyone with the power to change it doesn't care. That goes for a lot of things.
In the same way it's not anti-competitive for Apple to require Safari on iOS.
Oh wait. It is. But only google and microsoft get in trouble and apple always gets a free pass.
Methinks there is a history lesson you haven't learned.
MS didn't get into trouble just for bundling their browser. They got into trouble using every strongarm tactic they could think of to kill the browser market. They broke competitors, deliberately crippled APIs while IE used undocumented faster ones, and put IE in customer faces whether they wanted it there or not. MS used this tactic repeatedly to corner other markets, such as productivity suites. That's why MS got nailed.
Google execs can rot in hell honestly
I really cant put it into words how much I hate google right now... Capitalism at its finest
Here it is on PeerTube, since we're on the Fediverse and probably wanting to avoid Google.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=NLaePqv5Sec
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
TL;DW version?
It's basically all the bad things that tech writers have already warned about, except shit just got real. Google is actually shipping WEI in Chrome and large important sites and services are no longer working except in Chrome and with Goggle's blessing.
The author makes a very good comparison with Android, where you need a locked-down device and Google Services installed to be able to use Netflix, or your bank's services.
The rest of the article dives into what WEI claims to achieve vs what it's actually doing, and who it really benefits. Good read if you're still unclear about that.
Who’s already using this thing? I know Google ships it, but is anyone checking it yet
It's good odds that banks and streaming services are scrambling to implement it as we speak. You know they are. DRM is the perpetual wet dream for the music & film industry and for streaming services. And banks are paranoid as a matter of course.
It's going to be very hard to say no, especially since they can say "but Chrome is working on all platforms, nobody's pushing you out of anything". Will you drop stream subscriptions? Everybody loves to say they'll drop Netflix "as soon as they push me one more time", but what about a service you actually like? And what about banks, are those as easy to switch?
I've been through this for years now with Android and SafetyNet and it's a lot of hoops to have to jump through to stop being considered a second class user on your own device. It's going to suck extra bad when it comes to PC.
As for Google services themselves, I'm very curious to see in what order and how they choose to make WEI mandatory. Maybe not for Search and Gmail, at first, but what about accessing your Google Account, surely that must be secured? And YouTube of course, that's got DRM written all over it.
Google is actually shipping WEI in Chrome
Is this confirmed? Last I saw, it was still a proposal on github.
They ignored the objections to the proposal, pushed it directly into their tree and it's already live. I've had the prompt to enable it just today.
I was multitasking while watching but I'm pretty sure this is the idea.
Googles "web DRM" makes it impossible (or extremely difficult) to lie to a website about your browser, operating system, and whether or not you're human (or a bot). Websites can then use this info to deny access if they decide not to trust any of the info given.
This could easily be used to suppress the use of open source software which is probably why so many FOSS projects and foundations oppose it.
It doesn’t prove you’re not a bot though, only that the request is coming from a ‘genuine device’. You just need to pipe your malicious requests through a ‘real browser’ to get them approved and you’re set.
DRM in your web browser to forcibly require you to be running an "approved" browser (ie.: Chrome) in an "approved" configuration (ie.: no ad blockers) to load certain websites, and probably all major websites.
If this isn't a reason to trust bust Google, I don't know what is.
So the old Internet we knew is dead, time for Internet 2.0?
Technically, this is web ~~3 or 3.5~~ 4 or 4.5
This has happened before.
That was quick (Google integrating it). But of course it was...
About time I finally switch (back) to Firefox then. Have been using Vivaldi, but the only real solution is to move to a non-Chromium browser.
Sadly the only real move the average person has to play in all of this is if they do this, refuse to use any site that blocks access or extensions based on it.
Go back to paying your property tax with checks, etc if you have to. But the only way to deal with these companies is being willing to go to whatever lengths are required to avoid using their products and services.
Which is of course way easier to say than do.
This video is a really good explanation of why this is a horrible thing for the web.
Based on the post title, I was expecting some new revelation here, but it basically just explains everything that we already knew.
i don't quite get why can't the attester just.. lie.. about who he is like if I'm using firefox on linux, why cant my linux attester claim to be actually windows attester and say I'm using chrome?
I am not an expert, but it's likely signed and cryptographically secured. Change a single byte in the be Browser executable and your browser goes on the naughty list. This is total lockdown of the browser, and in principle you can extend certification of both software and hardware all the way down through the OS into the hardware.
Attestation depends on a few things:
If you're on iOS or Android, there's already strong OS level protections that a browser attestation can plugin to (like SafetyNet.)
~~Web~~Chain of trust, the site only trusts certain attesters (yes this would be really bad for Linux).
EDIT: Used the wrong "of trust"
We had the dominance of Microsoft with IE back in the day. They made sure that the web was being kept back. Google is doing the same now, even though people have been shouting that they'd never do that. Here we are..
