No Stupid Questions

American here, we have amassed more wealth than Rome at its peak, yet a disgusting number of our citizens live in third world conditions. Another disgusting amount of people live in relative comfort, but also in impossible debt that threatens them daily. They will be homeless soon, and they know it.

Our wealth inequality is worse than France before the Revolution, and it increases constantly. The wealthy don’t care. They just want more. They’ll burn the entire fucking planet to ash if it makes them a little more profit.

And Americans pay their utility bills with credit cards. And their grocery bills with credit cards. Their wages go to rent and booze/smoke to get by. Look at the mental health numbers in America and factor in the people worried about getting fired if they admit they’re struggling and ask for help. Factor in the ones who don’t have health insurance and can’t even ask for the help they need.

It’s a fucking nightmare here. And it’s getting worse every day. Trump is going to win for a reason.

I live in a western European country. A few anecdotes to illustrate what Americans don't get about healthcare:

I was involved in a serious accident and the passenger in my car was taken to hospital in an ambulance and had to have scans, etc. It ended up costing 1000 Euros.

One of my teeth needed to be replaced by a dental implant. I had it removed, a bone graft was necessary, then a few months later they drilled a metal pin into the jaw bone, then they placed a crown on it. The pin was Swiss made, the dentist did a 3d scan of the inside of my mouth for the crown. I had a few return visits. It ended up costing me 3000 Euros total, but I specifically spread the appointments around the new year: november - january. This was a big deal for me, as I was unemployed and needed to dip into my already small savings.

I had a headache, so I bought myself some paracetamol(tylenol?) at the drug store. 50 for 2 euros.

Sounds ok, right?

Here's the thing that Americans don't get. These are all fully private prices.

The first incident, I received a bill because it would have to be paid by the other party's insurance. 1000 Euros was the fully private cost without government intervention. The accident had happened just across the border in another country.

The second anecdote, this was also the fully private cost. Dental implants are not covered by healthcare. I have supplemental private dental insurance (20 Euros per month), which has a maximum deductable of 2000 Euros per year. Spreading it out meant I ended up spending only a few hundred euros, after I received money from my insurance a few weeks later.

The US system isn't just absurdly expensive for people who aren't insured, it's absurdly expensive compared to fully private healthcare in plenty of developed countries.

Hell, have a look at how much it costs to get plastic surgery in the US. A boob job is likely to cost you less than a visit to the ER, despite the latter being a far more involved and expensive operation.

It seems obvious to me that a lot of price gouging and anti-competitive behaviour is going on in US healthcare, and simply regulating (not privatising) properly would already make things far more affordable. How else can you explain healthcare costs per capita being up to three times as high as comparably developed countries, but outcomes often being worse? Healthcare shouldn't have to cost this much. The healthcare industry can make a reasonable profit while charging far more reasonable prices.

TLDR: you're getting ripped off, but you have no choice in the matter, because what are you going to do if it's an emergency? You can't just leave the country.

I remember an other US post of a guy who had done everything he was supposed to. Had insurance, had savings, had a well paid job.

Nonetheless, his whole family was in financial ruins when his wife got cancer. They had to move from the house and everything!

The fact that you don't think a $2-5k bil is a lot, just proves that this system does not work, especially because some people would not even be able to pay that back for years!

To me, this is hopeless. I'd much rather pay half of my salary in taxes and be sure that if something happens, it will be the only thing that happens and that I'll be taken good care of (and even my family will be offered help to cope). And in topnof that I get free education, 5 weeks free with pay, over 20 weeks paid maternity leave and pension. To me that sounds like a much better deal. The fact that others get the same by paying less does IMO not make it a worse deal.

The fact that you feel like the

We moved from America to see Asia years ago. We were just talking last week about how racist we still catch ourselves being. We have a sick relative at home who we talked about moving here. They'd be close to us so we could help. And healthcare here is cheap/free often and pretty good.

But there's part of me that just thinks American = superior. No matter how long I live here I'm not sure it will ever go away. It's been psychopathically programmed into me. "Yeah it's expensive, but at least you're getting a good doctor". (I've had awful and great doctors in both countries) It's infuriating to realize.

I used to be horrified and outraged. Now I just think it's hilarious. No problem, cause you got the 2nd amendment, right? You can get all the health care you need by just holding up a hospital. Haha.

I have learned that whenever something doesn't make sense about the US, it is racism. When segregation was declared unconstitutional, the southern states vowed "massive resistance". The baddies can also riot and mobilize civil society. They privatized what they could to thwart the overreach of the tyrannical government. People are naturally selfless, in that they are willing to suffer to hurt the right people. I fear this insanity is also spreading in Europe, as people are becoming aware of immigration. People do not vote in their own interest if it might benefit "the other", but they do vote against it if it might hurt "the other".

Of course, rational self-interest is also a factor. The US spends ~17% of its GDP on health care, compared to ~13% in Germany on second place. This is despite the fact that it has a younger population and does not cover everyone. So, yeah, those evil corporations again. But, maybe not just "them". That's also a lot of white collar jobs and you can see in AI threads how people feel when those are threatened.

I was offered by my employer to move to the USA with the husband and children to set up a local team for a few years and then return to Europe. Didn’t have questions about the pay, housing, nope. I had questions about healthcare. I usually end up once a year in the ER for myself, last stint was a miscarriage over Christmas with 6 ER meetings but I have a shit ankle and break various bones on the yearly because I don’t pay attention to where I walk. Add children: usual sickness plus all the stupid shit they do and end up in the ER for. Asked is the insurance had a zero deductible or something similar to what we have. Long story short, I didn’t want to leave our healthcare system and we stayed in Europe as all they offered wasn’t up to par with what we got.

I usually shrug and tell myself you could collectively fix it if you wanted to.

We feel lucky we're not there.

I think I'm fucking glad I emigrated to Canada.

I know it's not something everyone can do, but if you can afford it GTFO.

You know what I just fucking love?

People in the U.S. who say that it's fine if poor people don't have insurance because they can just go to the emergency room.

Not just because of stories like this, but because you can't go to the ER for chemotherapy.

Meanwhile, I have supposedly good insurance and have well over $10,000 in medical debt. I'm going to the Mayo Clinic in March, so that's going to soar.

Please invade us, Canada. Or Mexico. I'm easy.

The emotional reaction I get to these stories is hard to put into words. It's a mix of deep sadness and incandescent rage. I just can't imagine being in that position and not wanting to firebomb a politician's house.

My little girl had a very high fever the other night and we were really worried about her, so we called the nurse on call hotline who advised us to wait and go to the urgent care centre in the morning unless she got suddenly worse overnight, then to head to emergency. It was all stressful enough just worrying about how sick she was. I can't imagine how much worse it would be having to worry about paying for any of those services on top of that.

I can just explain the mindset, and then you can draw your conclusions: When people get sick, they evaluate whether it is bad/concerning enough as to be worth the hassle of making time to go to the doctor. If during work hours, in most office work spaces, you simply say "I'm going to the doctor. I'm back in a couple of hours", and you go.

Now the situation is getting increasingly worse every year, because the public health system is underfunded, and every year more so, so that private alternatives look much better... So that rich people and/or private health interests, can use their wealth to "argue" (paid propaganda, e.g funding political opposition) that the public healthcare is not adequate, and should be further defunded... Doctors literally chose between sticking to morals/principles or having non-insane working hours and a higher pay. So, we're headed in the same direction, for sure. The US just serves as the example of: take that path to its conclusion, and that's how fucked up it can get. Hopefully, when our public health service simply collapses within the next 10 years, we manage to draw the correct conclusions as to why that happened, and not double down on the same stupidity (just look at UK for inspiration). I'm sure think tanks are aware of this, and can suggest how to sow the seeds for a political zeitgeist where we go full retard.

But, people still selfishly vote for their own interests, or dumb enough to be convinced regardless. Humans sucks. Fingers crossed.

The most frustrating part of getting older and wiser, is clearly understanding the correct solutions and approaches. Perhaps not the answer to everything, but at least identifying what makes the problems worse. Then, observing that those in charge have private interests at heart, and that the new generation is too malleable to know any better.

I literally use the horror-stories about the US health care system to counter the bullcrap peddled by the white supremacist, pro-neocolonialism and pro-privatisation crowd here in South Africa.

Of course, it's a pretty moot point, really - our entire political establishment seems dead-set on dismantling and sabotaging what little remains of our tattered public infrastructure anyway to facilitate their corrupt dealings with foreign creditors. They only seem to differ on whether to do it slow or fast.

One thing that's different out that there is no such thing as not being able to pay for health insurance. You are required by law to be insured. This also means the government mostly covers it for you if you can't.

You may have to pay out of pocket for the first few hundred euros when something happens, but insurance covers the rest. There's no way a person's life savings would disappear overnight because of a medical issue. I'd rather die than pay what I sacrificed 30+ years to save up for.

Most of the time we don't think about it, because anything medical often comes with its own stress, so just thinking about that is front of mind.

It's only after the dust settles and we're all back home and safe that we might say something like "whew glad that's over! Can you imagine if we had to worry about money on top of that?"

Truly once you're used to single payer, the American alternative seems like lunacy. I cannot imagine the stress of combining some if life's biggest medical decisions with financial considerations

I'd go on but my socials timer is about to go

I'm not sure. I get the impression that the American culture contains the promise that you will succeed if you try, so perhaps people think that if they can't afford private healthcare insurance or pay their medical bills then it's their own fault. Coming from the UK I would be completely outraged if I had to pay and I think most other people here would be too. I don't think you can have both private healthcare and a stable state in an unequal economy because if enough of your minions & customers and get sick or die you lose the big leather armchair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYCRwcz2aV8 is really crazy, that americans seem to think, that you need to be able to get out of everything by yourself. In the line of: If something bad happens to you and you are not able to get out by yourself, then it is your own fault and nobody should help you. Though this is already often talked about.

Another scary thing is how little you like your government (being it of the State or federal). It seems Americans don't want the government to do much, not seeing at as a tool to handle modern problems. Back when I was at Reddit I read a thread about why americans opposed state run free healthcare for all. One user wrote something like "Don't see, why we should solve the price issue by letting the state (so taypayer) pay". The user just ignored the immense power, that a government of a big and wealthy nation has. It can easily press pharma companies to set prices low enough, without stiffling research and innovation. But that would be against freedom, I guess? Really difficult to understand.

Though changing the american system is a big task. Months ago I've seen a good video on youtube on that topic by TypeAston. I think its this one Would Universal Healthcare Really Work in the U.S.?

Thoughts and prayers!

In some ways America is a third world country. Healthcare is a fundamental human right, full stop.

Scary. That's what I think of the US healthcare.

The other side of the spectrum is that in the US, anything goes. If you got the money any and all treatment is possible.

Overhere that's not the case. Some medicine and/or treatments are deemed way to expensive or unproven and are unavailable.

Sounds like a joke.

Here: you hurt you go hospital. You wait to get fix

If you are sufficiently wealthy in the US, you can afford what we have as routine in Europe, which is healthcare. In the US, there are many who cannot afford insurance, and even with insurance, the policy is unlikely to cover your needs, especially for anything other than acute care.

what do you think when you read stories like these

Honestly they are so fucking sad I try to avoid reading them. Another example is this one: She Was Denied an Abortion After Roe Fell. This Is a Year in Her Family’s Life.

The monsters have been trying to do the same things in Europe though, UK has underfunded the NHS and healthcare in Germany is in deliberate decline too.

Well, in my country you have the option to pay for medcare or use a private plan. However you have full access to public, free and universal healthcare which you don't have to pay anything for it.

We don't have to convince anyone here. If you need attention, you'll get attention. For free.

I think that USA healthcare is a joke. A bad taste joke.