this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2023
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Technology

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Perhaps I've misunderstood how Lemmy works, but from what I can tell Lemmy is resulting in fragmentation between communities. If I've got this wrong, or browsing Lemmy wrong, please correct me!

I'll try and explain this with an example comparison to Reddit.

As a reddit user I can go to /r/technology and see all posts from any user to the technology subreddit. I can interact with any posts and communicate with anyone on that subreddit.

In Lemmy, I understand that I can browse posts from other instances from Beehaw, for example I could check out /c/technology@slrpnk.net, /c/tech@lemmy.fmhy.ml, or many of the other technology communities from other instances, but I can't just open up /c/technology in Beehaw and have a single view across the technology community. There could be posts I'm interested in on the technology@slrpnk instance but I wouldn't know about it unless I specifically look at it, which adds up to a horrible experience of trying to see the latest tech news and conversation.

This adds up to a huge fragmentation across what was previously a single community.

Have I got this completely wrong?

Do you think this will change over time where one community on a specific instance will gain the market share and all others will evaporate away? And if it does, doesn't that just place us back in the reddit situation?

EDIT: commented a reply here: https://beehaw.org/comment/288898. Thanks for the discussion helping me understand what this is (and isnt!)

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[–] Osayidan@social.vmdk.ca 3 points 1 year ago

There's 2 things to consider.

First since this is all relatively new there's a bit of a gold rush for starting communities, eventually a couple of major communities across instances will emerge for different topics and those will stick, this will make things a bit less impractical from the point of view of an average user.

Second is if we ever get functionality on lemmy to create the equivalent of a multireddit, where you can group as many communities as you want into a single curated view (either for yourself or shared to the instance) then this becomes a non-issue.

[–] Rentlar@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think things will more or less settle over time. I do think there will still be different communities with the same name that serve different purposes, similar to worldnews vs. USnews vs. news vs. anime_titties on Reddit. Over here, each one can be called news, but just be on different servers.

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[–] LostCause@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

This is a problem that is big now, but I think can also be solved with maturing the technology in the future.

Right now I have multiple accounts for multiple bubbles, but I can easily imagine some app or website that can congregate the content coming from multiple instances and choosing the appropriate account for it to post/view with.

Thus allowing one to access bubbles that have shut each other off in one central place. Unless they do it by completely blocking sign ups in which case they isolate themselves willingly and that is also good in a way to have as an option.

If I can imagine all this as a random system engineer, surely some developers with a passion for this and open source collaboration etc. can too.

[–] orsetto@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the idea is that in the end only one will "survive". Technology on beehaw has almost 20k subscrubers, whilst technology@lemmy.ml has only 750 subscribers, and that's the second biggest (unless i got this totally wrong)

[–] Markoff@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Technology on beehaw has almost 20k subscrubers

strange, it's showing me here 1609 subscribers here through kbin, or what I see are kbin users subscribed to technology on beehaw while you quote directly beehaw users?

[–] wilhelm_david@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I think it's kbin users, i'm messing with my own lemmy instance and it only shows local subscribers for anything federated (including this sublemmy)

[–] Spzi@lemmy.click 2 points 1 year ago

or what I see are kbin users subscribed to technology on beehaw while you quote directly beehaw users?

I think so, yes (though still learning). From my point of view (lemmy.click, just 83 users):

I think this shows the number of lemmy.click accounts subscribed to these remote communities.

But when I open the communities in their home instances, I get a different picture:

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[–] CookieJarObserver@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

Right now it might be a problem, but in the long term the communitys work it out themselves, reddit also had 10 different (general) memes subreddits.

As long as the instances are federated you can find their communitys pretty easily and participate there

[–] lmaydev@vlemmy.net 3 points 1 year ago

Those are two different communities. The same as they would be on Reddit. Literally different names.

Communities are hosted on one a synced with others. So technology will be the same on all servers as long as they haven't defederated each other.

[–] sourcerer@fosstodon.org 3 points 1 year ago

It's my 2nd day here. I love fediverse. Imagine that i write to you from mastodon. This thing have a lot of potential.

We are integrated and fragmented at the same time. Mind-blowing but i love this.

It's like writing from twitter to reddit user, this is insane. <3

[–] prorester@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Once "multi-reddits" have been defined and implemented in kbin that shouldn't be an issue. I don't know what'll happen with lemmy, but it would probably be in its interest to implement it too.

[–] Lells@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (11 children)

I'm not sure how Lemmy works, but over on kbin I can set up my magazine (collection of threads similar to a subreddit) to autofederate content based on certain tags. For example, I run the DwarfFortress magazine, and I have it set up to automatically federate content in the fediverse based on the existence of a #dwarffortress tag. Now, I haven't seen that happen yet, so I'm not 100% if it works or not, but it looks like the option is potentially there.

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[–] poudlardo@terefere.eu 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're right on that part. Federations works great with mastodon and its instances made of individuals directly interacting with each other's accounts.

But when it comes to interacting though communities already spread through instances, not only it makes it hard for people to follow all these duplicates, but it threatens the very principle of federation in a certain way. Because most people will eventually subscribe to the biggest community for each subject (tech, nature, photo), which often turns out to be hosted on the biggest instances...and that is centralization once again.

A solution could be for users to gather all the communities they subscribed to around topics. Then your feed would be a mix of these topics' groups and singles /c. Twitter does that similarly with its List feature.

[–] scifu@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

These things have a way to sort themselves out with time so no point in stressing over it.

[–] Kushan@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The main goal of these sites is link aggregation. It wouldn't be overly difficult for a federated server with its own /c/Technology community to see other posts from other communities linking to the same thing and combining the discussions into a single view.

The tricky part there is moderation, but even that's manageable by allowing moderators to remove content from a federated view within their own instance, it'll just be difficult when a small instance is dwarfed by a larger one.

[–] sudoreboot@mander.xyz 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't think of the threadiverse as a link aggregation platform but as a network of communities engaging in threaded discussion. The federated model is an answer to the problem of platform lock-in, the network effect, and the lack of autonomy communities have on proprietary/commercial/centralised platforms.

Each instance separately may fill the role of link aggregator but mainly for that community (instance), with that community's values and moderation policies. The ability for an instance to federate with other instances with compatible policies is the benefit here.

It may actually help if you view an instance as the community, with its "communities" as its topics.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But they are not "duplicates". !technology@slrpnk.net is about Solarpunk technology etc.

And even for "technology" communities on general purpose instances: the naming is completely arbitrary and also on Reddit there were always communities with overlapping thematic areas.

The problem is not that there are different communities with somewhat overlapping themes (which is absolutely unavoidable) but some strange sense of FOMO because they happen to be named similarly. But that is just a mind-set issue that is IMHO very un-healthy.

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