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(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2023
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Beehaw "moderators" don't have an issue with their user base checking out other communities. As is clearly obvious from the fact that they aren't defederated from all other instances.
They do have an issue with droves of unvetted users from other instances trolling and harassing their community though. And the most effective way to deal with that currently is to defederate from the instances that the majority of those bad-faith users are coming from. The unfortunate (and unintentional) side effect is that Beehaw users won't be able to interact with any of the users from those instances.
This is a situation born out of a combination of
You can disagree with this decision and users are free to switch, but this meme is a poor caricature of the actual effects of Beehaw's actions and (at least in my estimation) of their intentions.
The decision to defederate is less of an attack or an indictment against the other instances and more of a practical necessity for them to protect their community.
If the user base of the lemmy verse keeps growing I wouldn't be surprised if either
No, the meme is accurate. The owners of beehaw are so obsessed with protecting their users from possible harassment that they are willing to put them in a prison with no communication with most of the outside world (lemmy.world has the most active users and sh.itjust.works is in top 5).
Users are people capable of making their own choices. It they don't like the moderation approach they can just make a new account elsewhere. You don't get to tell them what they like.
Yes, how dare I criticize someone's actions and the impact they have on our community.
It is literally their community. They host it. They moderate it.
"Lemmy" is not a community, it is a loose federation of instances that can choose not to federate with other instances.
Your outrage seems based on "HOW DARE THEY BLOCK US FROM OUR COMMUNITY", but it was never yours. You were merely allowed to use it
It hurts both their users and us. The federation is now more divided for no good reason.
If they wanted to create a private community from the start that would be perfectly fine. But they let people sign up and create big communities that everyone else now relies on and then defederated. Isn't that a bit irresponsible?
Isn't it a bit irresponsible to let bigoted trolls post a lot of dick pics? Because that's what was going on. You're talking about [theoretical problems], but the mods of Beehaw made a (possibly flawed) call during an emerging situation to avoid a lot of [actually existing problems].
Are you saying that the only possible actions are to allow trolls or defederate? It seems to me that there are also other, better solutions. If their decision was flawed, we should be able to criticize it.
Lemmy seems to be fairly basic and limited currently when it comes to moderation, especially across instances.
I haven't seen them asking the community to make better tools (I could have helped) or with moderation.
I don't think that's a realistic solution right now so it makes sense they wouldn't try to do that. Scrambling to come up with a bunch of custom features using random volunteers is not likely to go well and won't solve the problem within a suitable timeline. They are definitely talking about what kind of improvements they want and are coordinating with the admins of the other instances so everyone is on the same page. From everything I've seen everyone involved is doing the best they can and trying to work towards improving Lemmy. That's great you can help with dev work, it looks like there's going to be a whole bunch of things to do so I'd encourage you to check out the Lemmy github and see where you can help out.
they're literally doing that right now
are they supposed to just sit and let trolls keep coming in while they do it????
I'm saying they could have asked for help and let us solve the issue together instead of cutting their users off from the outside world. No other instance had to defederate.
That argument is circular nonsense.
They couldn't have realized the full scope of the lack of mod tools until someone made it a problem.
So your argument seems to be based on Beehaw being at fault for not being able to see the future?
The fact that other instances aren't moderated to the same standard means that Beehaw is at fault?
they're literally doing that right now
are they supposed to just sit and let trolls keep coming in while they do it????
No, that is moderation.
These big communities were formed by people who may or may not have understood what federation means. This is the inherent implication that comes with subscribing to a community that is located on a separate instance. As long as the moderation tools are insufficient to stop rampant trolling, this is the only real reaction the instances have available If they are not willing to add a whole bunch of moderators.
Irresponsible is visiting other instances and not recognizing that what you post also reflects on your instance.
I see, you see Lemmy as being one big community, rather than separate communities that can interact with each other
so you see defederating as like locking away a part of the community, rather than a community deciding to lock up for a bit
The community didn't decide this as far as I know. It was the owners who did it and informed their community after the fact. If there was some kind of vote and I missed it, let me know.