this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
341 points (90.5% liked)
Fediverse
28480 readers
726 users here now
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Rules
- Posts must be on topic.
- Be respectful of others.
- Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
- Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
you gotta realize reddit didn't just "appear" one day with those obscure niche topics built out. There is a network effect large communities have. We need hundreds of thousands more members before that is possible.
I think you probably weren't there for early reddit, but most of the active posters here on Lemmy were. It was tiny. Like Lemmy.
You can't force those niche communities to exist here. It doesn't work. But what you can do is post and create valuable content. and eventually we may get there.
It's so weird to me that people are so spoiled today that they feel inconvenienced when there isn't limitless content in their niche fields of interest being served to them on a platter every single day.
Those of us who remember the before times can tell you that the absolute best of a platform comes before that point. I'm sure it's lovely getting your full every single second, but the best conversation, the best education, the best introspection comes when you're allowed a few minutes between stimuli to think.
I feel like "Old woman yells at cloud" but I really feel like our younger folks who crave endless, mindless interaction, don't know what they miss out on.
I can't blame them, because they've been conditioned to be consumers of content. While they idealize creators, they also put up barriers in their minds as the the level of quality a given comment, piece of content, whatever, needs to achieve before getting involved.
I try and think of Lemmy as the equivalent of the Linux. We're just going to have lower adoption because there isn't a corporate juggernaut behind us promoting this thing.
But if people really want to know why reddit was able to become reddit, it happened here yesterday with cats. It's bean memes. Its Stör. Its us developing culture of our own as a community.
So its fine. I'm not too worried. We're doing great.
I didn’t get a wall of voids and honestly, I feel a little left out lol.
Maybe that’s part of it, but it’s not just that.
For example, I preordered a Nanoleaf Sense+ switch, which just shipped for everyone on the preorder. I’m excited to hear other people’s experiences with the product as it uses direct communication with lights via the Thread network.
If I go to Reddit’s r/nanoleaf, there are enough members that I see people posting about Sense+ within a few days of the product shipping.
And it’s not just consuming. I want to help people set up the switch too. For example, Nanoleaf has a very confusing menu in the app that took me a while to figure out. I saw someone else with the exact same issue and left a helpful comment.
Seems to be a good topic for a thread on !homeimprovement@lemmy.world ?
This is usually how it goes. The larger communities keep growing until they can branch off into the more niche ones.
Doesn't seem that obvious, some people in the comments here point out that they prefer to have a dedicated community for their niche topic rather than posting on a generic community
And a lot of those people arrived when those communities were already built up on reddit.
This seems to be a type of post that keeps popping up more and more. Some people are venting and mourning their loss of reddit, which I get… but others have a sense of entitlement, of wanting to have things without needing to work for it. They want someone else to put in the blood, sweat and tears and be the ones to reap the benefits.
Imagine pilgrims coming to early North America and no one wanting to participate once they arrived, because no pre-built cities exited? We wouldn’t have a country in the US (though I’m sure that must have been the attitude of some)
Pardon me for wanting to have a place where I can discuss my hobbies, I guess.
A lot of people want that, it’s not that easy to find and it never was.
We just got spoiled by the good days of the internet.
You can still do that.
Start the conversation. That's what we all did, and where these communities got their start.
I've tried, believe me I've tried. Posting a bunch of threads out into the void doesn't suddenly manifest a like-minded community to reply to and engage with those threads. It won't truly be viable until there's a much larger userbase to begin with.
And honestly, it just comes across as patronizing to say the only reason my hobbies don't have traction here must be because I didn't try hard enough.
It is absolutely patronizing for people to say that. And you are right to feel that way.
Maybe think about it like this. I collect and propagate one species of orchid as a hobby. Its an obscure species among orchids, which are relatively obscure plants among plant collectors, and plant collecting is a relatively obscure thing among people growing with and interacting with plants, which is a relatively obscure thing in the grand scheme of all things.
So lets assume a 5% conversion rate at every step: There are maybe 40k active users on lemmy?
So of 40k users about 2k are into plants.
Of the 2k users into plants in some manner, about 100 are into plant collecting.
Of the 100 users into plant collecting, maybe 5 are into collecting orchids.
And of the five users collecting orchids, I'm the quarter of one user who collects Vanilla planifolia and Vanilla planifolia var. tahitensis.
So if I acknowledge this, I've got a couple options. First, I could just start a vanilla community. But I really shouldn't expect other people to participate, because I recognize that I'm probably the only vanilla grower on all of lemmy. If I do that, I should probably think about it as a place more like a personal blog or place for me to record my story. And maybe over time, it can grow in popularity and get a following.
Alternatively, I can share my exploits on larger subs, like c/plants, where I'll probably do well because there are more users, and the content I'm sharing is interesting and unique because so few people are into/ do what I do.
So if you can adjust your exceptions, there absolutely is a place for you here. But we're the flea market to Reddit's mall of America approach. But remember, Reddit too started as a flea market. It was a place for internet weirdos with weird hobbies and senses of humor. But appreciate you'll be a lone diamond here, but that gives you a chance to stand out.
Could vanilla orchids do well as a houseplant? I'm zone 7b/8a so I've had success playing around with semi tropical plants, but I don't have greenhouse space to overwinter frost intolerant plants.
I grew them in green houses for years. If you can keep the humidity high (60%+), they'll grow, but you'll won't get flowers.The leaves will be very diminished, and the plant less robust. Two things very different about vanilla compared to other orchids: they aren't an epiphyte; and they grow as a vine.
Typically, in the wild (and many of my cuttings are from 'adventures' to abandoned plantations) Vanilla has a "grow and fall over" vegetative habit. It grows tendrils down to the soil (which turn to accessory roots) following a support plant or structure. Its also extremely apically dominant. It barely branches, and it really, really wants to grow 'straight up'. It takes a substantial amount of training to get them to grow sideways. That was many words to say they do best in high humidity, regular potting soil, and need lots of space (especially vertically).
If you are still interested let me know or DM me. I'd be happy to send some cuttings.
Thanks for the detailed response. I intentially dehumidify our living spaces so I don't think I have a spot that would match your stated requirements for the time being. I will definitely bookmark your comment in case my dreams of installing a greenhouse come to fruition in the next couple years.
Yeah, I had to run mine with lights and humidifiers.
Legit, I've always loved the idea of orchids, but I know they have a reputation, and I'm... forgetful at best.
That would be pretty patronizing if I said that, I agree.
What I did say was, you need to start the conversation.
However, now that I've looked at your account... unless you have a secondary account to the one I'm replying to now, the whole 21 posts you've made over multiple communities, and that being your whole history for a year's worth of account... maybe I am saying "try harder." If you want to feel like that's patronizing, that's fine.
All the bigger communities on lemmy (like tenforward) happened because first one person posted a lot, every day. And then they were joined by others. And then the community they were in had drama so they moved to tenforward, but my point is, if you want people to talk to you about something, a single post once in a while doesn't do it. You gotta pump out content, post memes, attract people who want to be part of the conversation. Reply to like, everyone. Be friendly. Be engaging.
Okay, now you literally are saying I didn't try hard enough.
This is not my first account (it's also not anywhere close to a year old, not sure where you got that idea). I'd tried to start a few communities over on kbin.social, but that's gone now.
I don't have the energy to spend several hours a day flooding threads nobody will engage with, just in the hopes that if I keep it up forever eventually one of them might get a reply or two. It's not that easy, and it's patronizing to act like that's such a simple solution I should've thought of.
This is what I was getting at: communities don't come from nothing. You're welcome to stay where they're pre-built for you but posting endless content is how communities get started.
When I was younger, I was someone who ran a few of those communities myself. If it's patronizing to say you didn't try hard enough (while you're also declaring you, yourself, don't have the energy to do it) then it should be less patronizing, but still fair, to say... if you don't want to do it, don't complain that someone else isn't doing it for you.
If you don't want to be on Lemmy, then don't. Come check back in periodically to see if someone else had the energy to do what you didn't. It's fair to say you don't want to do the work. Whining someone else isn't doing it doesn't get it done faster.
I never said I don't want to be on Lemmy. But when people talk about the downsides of this platform's still niche userbase, it isn't productive to jump in and admonish them for just not trying hard enough to manifest a critical mass of users through sheer willpower.
You, specifically, admitted you don't have the energy to do it, and your only evidence you've ever tried is, "trust me," but answering the question of "what do we do to get more people" with the answer of, "post every day and be engaging" isn't helpful?
I'm saying that when the problem is a low userbase, responding with "you're spoiled for even wanting niche hobby spaces, and it's your fault for not putting in an excessive amount of energy that isn't even likely to pay off (because the userbase isn't there)" isn't productive.
I feel like this entire conversation isn't productive. You have a talent for putting words in my mouth, and quotes around things I didn't say.
Real tired of it, so I will no longer be responding here. Have a good one!
And how do you think that larger userbase is going to come into existence?
Not overnight, that's for sure. It's going to take a long time to ever get that kind of critical mass.
What I'm trying to get at is that people need to stay for a critical mass to be reached instead of going "there's nobody here" and leaving.
I'm here, not planning on leaving any time soon. But I'm also acknowledging that Lemmy can't fully be everything Reddit was, not without a Reddit-size userbase.
Which particular niche topic(s) is it?
Fighting games and Riichi Mahjong. !fgc@lemmy.world and !mahjong@lemmy.nerdcore.social exist, but are pretty barren. I'd also previously tried to start communities for them on kbin.social, but that's gone now.
Also arcade-style versus puzzle games, but those are so dead these days that even on Reddit they didn't have an active sub.
I hope you get more engagement in the community. But you should probably engage more with others posts as well.
Have you tried promoting the fighting games community on !newcommunities@lemmy.world and generic games communities? That could help you find at least a few other people who would like to discuss that topic in the fgc community
Also, !fedigrow@lemm.ee is a community dedicated to community growing, we have regular threads to discuss "shouting into the void"
Yeah, the reason I like Lemmy is because it reminds me of old reddit. Like old old reddit, before the Digg migration.