this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're right we should be running dogs for western imperialism instead.

And yes it will improve revolutionary conditions as the contradictions become more aparent (money for weapons and genocide is seemingly endlessly available, but not when it's about housing, environment, healthcare, etc.). The only reason you see it as moronic and dangerous, is because you seem to live in a country that reaps the benefits of imperialism that grant you stability in life

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're right we should be running dogs for western imperialism instead.

Ah yes, because there are only two options, you're either a running dog for western imperialism or a running dog for Russian imperialism. But being a running dog for Russian imperialism is actually cool because it will lead to communism somehow. Don't ask what happens in between, that's not important...

And yes it will improve revolutionary conditions as the contradictions become more aparent

Wow that's incredible, why don't we just skip waiting for the imperialists to do it and carry out the genocide ourselves. That'll really make those contradictions more apparent, I can't wait!

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes, because there are only two options

It's almost like there isn't, right? Could it be the "critical" part in "critical support"?

Wow that’s incredible, why don’t we just skip waiting for the imperialists to do it and carry out the genocide ourselves.

Your brain is melting wtf are you even saying?

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I thought it would be obvious I was mocking you by repeating the viewpoint you expressed without the air of pretentiousness that you surround it with, but I guess I was the stupid one for thinking you were capable of recognizing sarcasm.

Also "critical support" for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve "critical support" while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

thought it would be obvious I was mocking you by repeating the viewpoint you expressed without the air of pretentiousness that you surround it with, but I guess I was the stupid one for thinking you were capable of recognizing sarcasm.

I see you're like arguing with strawmen in your head

Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

That's what I'm asking you dumbass lol why can you lend western imperialism critical support and not to Russia? Maybe figure out the term and how it's defined before speaking on it?

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Kindly point out where I expressed critical support for western imperialism.

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, I was under the impression you were speaking in favor of NATO expansion and think that while the US is bad, it's emdevours in Ukraine are just (this time).

Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

Revolutionary defeatism

Recognizing that yes, Putin's Russia is a bourgeois state with highly questionable rights for sexual minorities and a husk of its former Soviet glory, its re-nationalized industries are a target for the US imperialist emdevours ripe to be privatized again. (You can see how the NATO supports racist nawalny,.but not the largest opposition force in Russia instead, etc.)

To understand the geopolitical context of the NATO proxy war in Ukraine against Russia it helps to watch the Mearsheimer lecture on it (hardly Russian propaganda)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Also Ben Norton gives a solid breakdown here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhajzlhcgSk

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Let me approach this from a different angle. If a military defeat is necessary to create revolutionary conditions, is it not then in the best interest of the working class in each imperialist power for the other to win, and does that not then put the working class in each imperialist power at odds with one another?

Don't you believe in internationalism? Solidarity?

How many hundreds of thousands of lives does it cost to create revolutionary conditions, and how can you be so arrogant as to cheer while they're fed into the meatgrinder, believing with such certainty that it means you'll get your chance at revolution?

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

If a military defeat is necessary to create revolutionary conditions, is it not then in the best interest of the working class in each imperialist power for the other to win,

Yes?

and does that not then put the working class in each imperialist power at odds with one another?

Yes I would like the war to end asap and not to see Ukraines working class be forced into the meat grider to fight the imperialists fight..

Don’t you believe in internationalism? Solidarity?

Yes?

How many hundreds of thousands of lives does it cost to create revolutionary conditions, and how can you be so arrogant as to cheer while they’re fed into the meatgrinder, believing with such certainty that it means you’ll get your chance at revolution?

That's such a perverted misrepresentation of material reality I'm not even sure where to begin. 1) Analysis does not mean justification. That's your interpretation of it. 2) where am I cheering it on? You make it sound like I endorse it when in fact it's NATO and it's proponents 3) heightend contradictions improve condition for revolution is a basic historical fact..

[–] Vilian@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

When they point "NATO expansionism", you know that any logical discussion is beyond hope

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Thanks to your valuable contribution to the discussion