this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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They exchanged text messages and emojis. Brief status updates with words of encouragement. A picture of the beloved family dog "Tutsi."

Until no more messages came.

And then, Cindy Flash, an American, and her Israeli husband Igal vanished into the violence, presumed kidnapped by Hamas.

Four days after Hamas attacked Israel, more than 100 Israelis and potentially dozens of foreign nationals are thought to be held captive in the Gaza Strip. At least 14 U.S. citizens have been killed and an unknown number are still unaccounted for.

Flash, 67, originally from St. Paul, Minnesota, is one of them. She lives in Kfar Aza, a kibbutz in southern Israel near Gaza, where some of the most harrowing and grisly stories have been emerging during the last few days.

"They are breaking down the safe room door," Flash said in one of her final messages to her daughter Keren, 34. "We need someone to come by the house right now." She had been communicating with her parents from a few houses away.

Keren described her mother, who worked as an administrator in a local college, as someone who had the "sweetest biggest heart," who everyone knew and loved, and who had spent a lifetime advocating for the rights of Palestinians, including those who live in Gaza where she may now be held.

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[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago (11 children)

I have no idea who Israel is targeting, but if history is any guide, it is Hamas terrorists.

Then you were living through an alternate timeline. Israel has killed more than 10.000 Palestinian civillians since 2008 before this weekend. Now they have declared the Palestinians animals when announcing the blockade starving them to death now.

Also they told the Palestinians to flee into Egypt and then bombed the road close to the border crossing.

[–] flossdaily@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I don't dispute your numbers. But Israel has been in a non-stop battle against terrorists who use their own people as human shields. So I put the civilian death toll squarely where it belongs: at the feet of the terrorists.

I've seen ZERO evidence that Israel has ever as a matter of policy targeted innocent civilians. In the contrary, I've seen Israel go out of it's way to send text messages to civilians to give them time to evacuate. I've seen they drop lead weights on rooftops as a warning to the people inside you get out before actual missiles come.

I've never heard of any other nation doing that. Never. They are knowingly letting terrorists escape because it spares civilian lives.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)
[–] flossdaily@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes. Largely it is the Palestinian conflict that muddied the waters here to begin with.

After 9/11 the world was united in a war on terror, defined as I just defined it. It was in direct response to the evil of killing innocent civilians in that awful day.

And for a while it looks like the entire tactic of terrorism was going to be stamped out. Even the Irish Republican Army vowed to stop using it as a tactic.

But then people looked at the Israel conflict, and their hatred of Israel did not compute with this new war on terrorism, where the Palestinians were clearly the only ones deliberately targeting civilians.

So the anti-Israel people started muddying the waters by throwing around the term "state terrorism" which meant... Whatever they wanted it to mean.. Building a fence. Bulldozing a house. Collateral damage while killing a terrorist. Whatever.

And that's where we are today... Where the anti-Israel people are very happy to muddy the waters to the point where terrorism no longer has a meaning for them. That way they don't have to remember that the Palestinians are the only ones with a policy of deliberately targeting civilians.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don’t question your beliefs at all, why?

[–] flossdaily@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I question them all the time. Never seen a shred of evidence that Israel targets civilians.

And the distinction between that and collateral damage is one of intent, which is absolutely key in determining moral and practical culpability.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] flossdaily@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From your own link:

Here we go again with the “double standard” for Israel, said The Jerusalem Post. The soldiers’ testimony—none of which has been confirmed—cited only two “egregious cases,” and neither was a war crime. In one, a sharpshooter killed a woman and her two children in what everyone agrees was a tragic mistake—it merited discussion only because one soldier believed the shooter hadn’t felt “too bad about it.” In the other, an elderly woman was shot as she approached an army position—most likely because she was wrongly suspected of being a suicide bomber. Such incidents are highly regrettable, but they are aberrant: The IDF tries to target only militants. Hamas, by contrast, plants bombs in crowded buses and shopping malls; a large car bomb was discovered at a mall in Haifa just last weekend, and it was mere luck that it malfunctioned and failed to go off. The difference between Israel and its enemies is undeniable: “We don’t set out to kill innocents, and if we do, our society feels anguish. They set out to kill civilians, and when they fail, they’re disappointed.”

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Several Israeli soldiers and officers say they are essentially being encouraged to kill civilians.

You are choosing to be misinformed.

[–] Sparlock@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You tried. He's a lost cause. Best you can hope for is that others have read what you put here and see how Floss is wildly bigoted and unwilling to accept it.

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