778
Average capitalism enjoyer
(media.mas.to)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
778 points (92.6% liked)
Memes
45190 readers
1590 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Okay hate on capitalism, fair enough
But equating it to literal slavery like we've had in the past (and still have in some parts of the world) seems problematic to me
— Frederick Douglass
I suspect that most other actual slaves would not entirely agree with that sentiment
Your original stance was that it is "problematic" to equate them. Do you think it was problematic for Fredrick Douglass to equate them? If not then your original position has to change.
We don't have polling on prior chattel slave views on wage slavery, but since you're making a habit of just going with your gut, I'll do the same. I'd wager most prior chattel slaves would've been more than happy to abolish all forms of slavery (including wage slavery).
Douglass died in 1895 when the standard of living was wildly lower than what it is today, its not an equivalent comparison
“Gee, I know I said all that about wage slavery, but who could have predicted iPhones and corn syrup. This is great!”
Read the shit you’re making claims about.
Why don't you do the same? Your original quote is 137 years old. It is in fact problematic to equate the economic landscape of 2023 to that of 1886. In that quote Douglass is specifically criticizing the treatment of freed slaves, not capitalism in general. (If you want to convince people capitalism is bad, you need to make valid criticisms, not twist old quotes to suit your narrative)
If the age of an idea is a judge of its quality, the old man of capital is defeated by the youthful zeal of communism.
I got the quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery
Where did you hear that it was specific only to freed slaves?
From Citation 33 of the Wikipedia article you linked. Reading the original source provides the context of the quote.
Ok that's what I read too. The Wikipedians and I must be interpreting it differently.
Your stance still needs to change then. Your issue isn't comparing wage slavery with chattel slavery, it's comparing slavery when the standard of living has improved.
Now this stance is still problematic, imagine we lost the civil war and the north became socialist, abolishing wage slavery. The south would have chattel slavery and the north would have no slavery. Now imagine the standard of living for chattel slaves vastly improved, and someone then tried to compare "modern day chattel slaves to wage slaves". Your stance would then be this is wildly unfair to modern day chattel slaves because wage slaves had a worse standard of living, a position we both understand is ridiculous.
Has chattel slavery been replaced with wage slavery for a large population since then? (Actually asking, not rhetorical)
If living conditions have improved for wage slaves but not for chattel slaves, then I'd imagine they would agree with you.