“People think, increasingly it appears, that we shouldn’t be doing this. Well, let me start by saying we haven’t lost a single American in this war,” McConnell said. “Most of the money that we spend related to Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own military for what may lie ahead.”

cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/4085063

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[–] navorth@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Ethnic cleansings in those territories are a fabricated casus beli for Russia 'green man'. There were tensions between Russian and Ukrainian nationals in those territories, but I've seen no data on large scale extermination operations.

Ukraine engaged in a defensive war with a force clearly backed by their stronger neighbor that just laid claim to another piece of their land (Crimea). This was a land grab in all but name, no matter how much propaganda tries to paint it as a legitimate independence movement. Blame for casualties of that war lies entirely on separatists and Russia.

[–] TheGamingLuddite@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ukraine has used internationally banned cluster munitions in the donbass since 2014. A six year old playing in a field and dying to unexploded ordnance, whether that child is a Russian or Ukrainian speaker, is a horrific tragedy. These bombs are a form of terrorism sponsored by the post-coup Ukrainian state, and the nazi paramilitaries active in the area were and are state-sponsored terrorists.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions

[–] navorth@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But I never said I support cluster munitions. Fuck them, and fuck the Nazis.

I did not just engage in a few hours of discussion to try and convince anyone that Ukraine is the shining beacon of hope and democracy. It isn't, they have problems. So does every state. Some (like Russia) just seem to have comparatively more of those, or are not particularly good at dealing with them.

[–] TheGamingLuddite@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

The problem though is that these issues are self-perpetuating. Both the current Russian and post-2014 Ukraine governments are the products of US interference. If we were truly spreading Democracy, then they would be capable of mediating these conflicts peacefully. Since Capital dictates the terms of our international intervention, it puts its own interests first, and it's very interested in selling weapons. I just can't accept the premise that selling more weapons will lead to any sort of long-lasting peace or democracy in the region.

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